Then would you support the protesters using force in response? You seem to be saying that not only is it fine for police to use this type of force, the protesters are lucky they weren’t real bullets.
No. First you missed the “disobedience” part, now you’re missing the “civil” part.
I’m saying that the police used standard, non-lethal force to disperse the crowd. If you’re engage in CD, you sit there and let the police drag your ass off to the paddy wagon. It’s a very effective tool, if your cause has the support of the people.
You’re right about the rubber bullets. The officer was firing before the protesters came to the aid of the injured person.
However, at no point can the injured person be seen throwing anything.
I say, if they are going to get all ugly about it, disperse. The point has been made, such as it is. First, of course, go all Woodstock on their asses, pick up all the litter, give them no target. Because it disperses does not mean it fails, it can coalesce again as the situation demands. In fact, that could be a major strength. You can’t round up the leaders, there aren’t any. You cannot insert a spy to tell you what they are planning, they aren’t planning.
OWS didn’t create the sympathy they are experiencing, the sympathy was already there, in a vast, inchoate cloud of non-specific disgruntlement. The OWS occupation simply made it manifest, and that is a win. Take the win, disperse, keep in touch. They will provide you with another opportunity, you can take that to the Credit Union.
I think these small, dispersed protest aren’t going to be very effective. They need one, big, Mo Fo of a protest in Washington DC. That’s where the change is going to come from, it if does.
[QUOTE=Sinaptics]
You’re right about the rubber bullets. The officer was firing before the protesters came to the aid of the injured person.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, must not have been clear…I don’t see any evidence in your linked YouTube video of an officer firing a gun, whether with rubber bullets or silly putty. I don’t even see an officer with a gun in his or her hand on the barricade. If you have a time stamp for me to look at I’ve got the video up, but all I’m seeing is tear gas and some of what I presume are the ‘flash bangs’ that are being discussed.
Time stamp 21…you can see a gas canister being hurtled back towards to police, and then something dark a bit further on…and it’s from the place where the injured person will be later on. There are several people, so I can’t tell exactly who threw it…could have been a buddy of the person injured I guess. However, since the folks there are wearing masks and obviously wanting to tangle with the police I’d say that they knew what they were in for doing stupid shit like that. Granted, the folks coming to the aid of the injured person who was in a pissing match with the police weren’t so protected and were just trying to help…but it’s unclear to me exactly why the cop threw the additional flash bang thingy. Was it because s/he was annoyed or pissed off…or did s/he see someone in that group getting ready to throw something again and decided for a bit of preemption? Hard to say from your video there. ETA: Just before the cop throws the flash bang I see something being thrown at the police from the right of the camera…I’m guessing that’s what set off the copper and made him or her toss that little present at the crowd.
The point though is that if you decide to get in a pissing match with the police at a barricade then people are going to get hurt. It’s a stupid thing to do, IMHO. YMMV.
-XT
Oh, dear. The OWS movement has lost the support of both XT and John Mace. Knell of doom for sure, for sure.
Yeah, they are doomed, no doubt. 
Of course, here it’s the UOWS movement, since the whole ‘occupy’ thingy is frowned upon in my neck of the woods…
-XT
I think he and I are closer to what most Americans think than you are. So yes, it would be better if they had our support than yours.
Didn’t see that coming.
I’m not completely unsupportive of the issues. I deplore “Too Big To Fail”. But I can’t get on board with the whole panoply of issues these guys are going after, nor do I support violence on the part of protesters.
You are entitled to your opinion. But I don’t see how that gives you any special insight into what most Americans think about OWS.
…or conversely, if the OWS has the support of 'luci and Gonz, skip the whole fucking civil disobedience shit and move straight on to the Constitutional amendment phase.
I know a thing or two about American opinion, and know a thing or three about elucidator’s views. So, yes it does in this case.
Well, that and a wide stance will get you a blowjob at the airport.
The New York Times, which is nothing if not a mouthpiece for the left and liberalism, even points out that just because the title SAYS that there were flashbangs, that doesn’t necessarily make it so.
or are we, uncritically, accepting activist claims at face value, because they agree with our worldview?
“And you know something is happening here, but you don’t know what it is.
Do you, Mr. Jones?”
Ballad of a Thin Man
St. Robert of Hibbing
[QUOTE=John Mace]
I’m not completely unsupportive of the issues. I deplore “Too Big To Fail”. But I can’t get on board with the whole panoply of issues these guys are going after, nor do I support violence on the part of protesters.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I’m not un-supportive of some of the issues either. There was plenty of blame to go around in that whole cluster fuck situation, and certainly Wall Street™ gets their share too for how stupid they were. But as you say, these folks are all over the board here, running the gamut of every loony lefty issue dealing with the economy, taxes and loopy concepts about getting rid of capitalism, blah blah blah, to real, meaningful protest and anger over what’s happening, and then to right wing wingnuttery and even libertarian whackjobbery with folks like Paul getting in on the action. There is a mountain of ignorance about what actually happened, why it happened, who (all) were to blame, and a huge amount of debate as to what the ‘best’ course of action would be to get us all, collectively, out of this mess…and I don’t see much rational coming out of the Occupy folks concerning real, practical and workable solutions to move forward.
Personally I think these folks would be better off protesting to and about their elected officials than trying this dippy Occupy Wall Street stuff, but that’s just me. And it’s militantly unsurprising that a certain percentage of these folks (small, no doubt) are using these protests as an excuse an platform to get into such violent pissing matches with the police, to destroy stuff, and generally be assholes.
-XT
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Well, that and a wide stance will get you a blowjob at the airport.
[/QUOTE]
Cite?? This could be vitally important information here!
-XT
“Well, we didn’t want any trouble, really, but it was those two guys over there, with the signs saying ‘Not Entirely Unsupportive!’ that started it all!”