Non-violent? Can you prove that? Would you bet your (people’s) lives on that?
Slate said they were throwing rocks, bottles, and dishware, for chrissakes.
Cops always should err on the side of caution. Especially when dealing with people, some of whom are marginally connected to reality.
No, Slate says the cops said they were throwing rocks, bottles, etc.
What a field day for the heat!
Apparently, OPD called in forces from 16 other local municipalities.
In my world, “cops always should err on the side of caution” means NOT engaging in violence unless violence is first delivered. It also means they should err on the side of caution, lest they be prosecuted for initiating the use of unjustified force. Cops should be exactly as justified in the use of force as any other civilian–only as necessary to enforce legal commands, and only in proportional response.
I’m curious what “wood dowels” means in the context of breaking up a riot. I’ve never heard of wood dowels being involved in any kind of projectile weapon other than, like, spears and arrows.
You’re halfway there. They shoot them. Out of guns. At people.
That’s an actual thing? That doesn’t seem less-than-lethal at all.
(It sure sounds great for zombie fighting, though)
The velocity is low enough that they’re “less than lethal”.
In reality, they’re possessed of approximately the same problems as rubber slugs and beanbags–they hurt, and it just takes one dickhead with a badge to aim for the head instead of center torso to really fuck a person up.
The article I read this AM was a little different, without those qualifications. Which is why I quoted a different part of the article, about explosives, which is even worse. That’s the reporter talking, not echoing police reports.
Yeah, I think that’s why they’ve started to call them “less-lethal” rounds sometimes. I’m pretty sure one in the head at close range would do for you at least some of the time.
But debilitating injury usually isn’t death!
Iraq War veteran in serious condition after being hit in the head by a police projectile at the Oakland protest.
I ran a couple searches and I can’t even pull up pictures of the things. Did find this though:
Oakland: ‘Less-Than-Lethal’ Weapons Come Under Scrutiny - December 2003
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1213-08.htm
Some choice quotes:
“Earlier this week, Word announced that after an internal review his department would ban the use of wooden dowels and would no longer bump protesters with police motorcycles.”
"Lawson said later the emphasis on what weapons should remain on the department’s list represents “a disconnect” from the more pressing issue of the appropriate use of force against protesters. "
What you’re looking for is a baton round, like the one in the middle here.
An Iraq War Vereran? Oh my god, that’s horrible. Why couldn’t have been a dirty hippy, that would have been fine.
There are people saying that the whole Occupy movement is nothing more than bored middle class kids and dirty hippies anyway. When something like this happens, it’s helpful to show that, no, it’s more than that. Folks that some conservatives might assume to be “on their side” are also showing up, and are suffering too.
Wait, wait. You mean to tell me that stereotypical members of groups of one side of an issue use a broad brush to stereotype the members of groups of another side of an issue unfairly? Go on you say. I think I just got the vapors.
So woodstock, you still haven’t answered the question
If the cops’ account was correct and the [del]rioters[/del] protesters were using violence, would that have been a reasonable response by the cops? If not, what would you have had them do?
You can’t even phrase the question in a non-douchey manner, can you? “Rioters” my ass. Typical right-wingtard exaggerated invective. I must have missed all the looting and violence and destruction of property that usually constitutes riots. I’m sure the police chief can give you plenty of examples while you’re busy sucking his cock, though.
Nevertheless, I’ll answer your dipshit question. If people were assaulting the police, depending on the severity of the attacks, I could see using tear gas to disperse the crowd. Rubber bullets and flash bang grenades? Not even remotely necessary.
Time to back away, even if only in Oakland itself. I am totally willing to foster dissent, but not violence.
(Funny. Was just thinking how it seems the Oakland cops are a kinder. gentler bunch than they were forty years ago. OK, “funny” isn’t the word…)