Naw, I’m pointing out that your cites are complete garbage in terms of proving jack shit, so I don’t actually give a shit.
I dismiss the data because of what it is! It’s not hard numbers, it’s not even objective data on loan rates–it’s an opinion poll of senior bank employees. I mean, it’s marginally better than your declarations that because you worked for a financial institution, you just know more and can spout shit uncited. But only marginally.
Meh, they made their damn profits, they continue to profit on the income they made from it, therefore it’s the same damn problem.
And I say that because the attitude of “hey, we’re banks, and we’re going to go for the profits at the expense of taking actions that will increase the overall stability of the economy and benefit the average person” is kind of the actual goddamn problem here.
I mean, basically what this means is that you had better hope that this doesn’t happen again within the horizon of political memory, because the banks WILL go under. Another TARP, after the way this one went, will be political suicide.
And I sincerely hope to not have the opportunity to be proven right, but at this point I have no faith in the ability of our vaunted financial sector to do anything but pick the thing with the biggest profit, assume they can’t lose, and ride the economy into a fucking hole like Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove.
You blame the. Anks for being too loose, and for being too tight. You are so ignorant of what occured that you are not even aware of the general time for which you make your accusation. You don’t understand your own cites and you ignore the parts that disagree with you.
You dismiss the benchmark measure of credit demand issued by an impartial branch of our federal government because of “bias” without even bothering to understand its methodology or bothering to view the 20 years of useful data that it’s supplied.
You offer nothing to replace this, except your ignorant assertions on what you think… With your vast experience in IT or chicken farming, or what have you about, must have happened.
Your debating style seems to be that as long as you refuse to accept it it didn’t happen.
Well, we’ve established a few things about the crash:
No, Barney Frank didn’t cause it.
It had nothing to do with the Community Reinvestment Act.
Fannie and Freddie didn’t cause it either.
Credit was way too loose on real estate loans.
We have no evidence that credit was overly loose, prior to the crash, for loans unrelated to real estate. Perhaps such evidence exists, but it’s absent from this thread.
The banksters were given a great deal of TARP money, with the expectation that they would lend it out. Instead, they tightened lending standards on commercial loans so businesses had a harder time getting loans, intensifying the downturn. (Scylla refuses to accept this, but as he says, “Hand waving is not debate.”)
Let’s just start here. Why the hell is it you think this is some kind of gotcha?
Let’s say you wear a 32" waistband in jeans, and I offer you a choice: You can have 38"s or 24"s. Do I then get to laugh at you for saying this one’s too loose, this one’s too tight?
I am not arguing the same thing you think you’re defending. I’m accusing the banks of making deliberate, ongoing, and pervasive decisions.
I fully understand my own cite, and so what if I ignore the parts that disagree with me? I took the quotes from two people who ought to know something about loan demand, and that’s what I wanted from the damn news article. The fact that the article interviews other people doesn’t change the fact that the two people I quoted have the titles I mentioned and said the things that I quoted them as saying.
I READ the methodology, ignatz. It’s a goddamn opinion survey. No hard data presented.
And, y’know, quotes from people in the business. And a simple goddamn analysis of the fucking numbers as they stand.
As opposed to your “Bow down to the High Financier!” stance?
In your mind, maybe. Fortunately, the rest of us don’t live there–seems a bit cramped from out here.
Also, for the love of crap, put the iPad down and learn to goddamn proofread.
Actually there was a commission that investigated the causes of the collapse., the Financial Crisis Inquiry Comm. It released its conclusions last year. It put the blame on banks, relaxed lending standards , poor and non existent regulation. It said Fannie and Freddie had little to do with it.
It was bankers, greed and packaging mortgages. It was banks.
On another note, I see that the spoiled children who are dressing up and playing protester managed to disrupt a speech. No matter what you think of any particular politician, this kind of stuff just shows that they have no class and a highly overdeveloped sense of entitlement.
As the Examiner put it, the protest isn’t about economic justice anymore (if it ever was). It’s about clashing with police and rescue workers when they show up to help after someone dies from a drug overdose. It’s about how many people in the encampments are learning about sexual assault awareness the hard way.
The Examiner was wrong. It was and still is about economic justice.
A cop who beats up a prisoner who is in cuffs. Is that a problem with all cops? Most of us understand a few people do not represent the whole, nor do they change the message. That is fundamental logic and simple math. Alien to you but part of most people thinking.
It may be that Obama gets even more votes than those people.
He was no doubt too fascinated by the “Blood of patriots” and “This is why we have a Second Amendment” signs and slogans to care about mere rude behavior.
http://www.themreport.com/articles/big-banks-sued-for-allegedly-bilking-veterans-taxpayers-2011-10-05 Banks ,especially the big ones, have been caught disguising bogus fees as legitimate and screwing over veterans and taxpayers. I just love bankers, they are so educated , so smart and such degenerate thieves. Yep, they need big bonuses to keep top talent. Without the money they might wind up with honest bankers. You can’t have that ,can you?
Lord knows you have your hands full, but I was wondering if you had any other response to my last reply to you – post #1875 – or are we finished for the time being?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/11/calif-county-rebukes-jp-morgan-bank-of-america-over-fraud-settlements/ Bankers payoff court cases and try to keep[ their nasty double dealing out of the public. People without any values except making as much money as possible become finance bankers.
Selling people financial instruments they know are going to fail is terrible. But betting their own money that they will fail at the same time is reprehensible. The constant is they always get their fees.
