I really liked 11. I like most of the actors in it.
But 12 was really gooood IMO. I don’t even remember any of it, besides the fact it was so good. A twist movie with a really good twist…what a twist!
I often don’t talk about how good a movie is. Its good enough that I would hesitate to watch it again (another thing I rarely do). Now that I am thinking about it, I am sort of tempted to watch it agian to see if its as good as I remember it being.
When 13 came on cable recently, I watched it, remembering how good 12 was and thinking that 13 could not be nearly as good as 12. It wasnt nearly as good, but it was pretty decent.
What a good movie.
Now, if I could only get Clooney to narrate this post and then at the very end tell you that every time he said “good”, it really meant "bad…this post would be a good as Oceans 12.
Wow. Avatar and Die Another Day are nowhere near as bad as Ocean’s 12.
Here is a question I ask people who have seen the movie, by the way. I’ll do my best to remember, but I only saw it once, which was enough.
Remember the scene where they were “loading” the Chinese guy into either luggage or a box and putting him on a conveyor belt to be shipped away? (sorry, this is the best I can remember).
Does that scene serve a purpose later? Does it come back into relevance? How?
If people recognize Julia Roberts’ character as looking like Julia Roberts, why in the world don’t they recognize the other famous actors’ characters?! I mean, what the hell??
I’m fine with illogical movies and I enjoy watching actors have fun. In this case, we’re watching a movie that’s centered around the characters being superduper clever thieves who pull off increasingly complicated heists. And the solution was to go in the opposite direction with something stupid. I’m just saying it didn’t work at all for me. Imagine you’re watching a cop drama where the main character’s cover is blown at the end because the drug dealer suddenly realizes he’s Harrison Ford. Or a movie where the hero gets out of danger because the villain recognizes him as Will Smith and says he was a big Fresh Prince fan when he was a kid. It’s more of a cheat than a joke.
In order, the movies should be ranked 11, 13, 12. I loved 11, enjoy 13, and feel pretty meh about 12. The Fox stuff was good, particularly the going through the lasers, although it had been done in Entrapment already.
I can understand the dislike though, in general. But don’t use 12 as an excuse to not watch 13.
You’re missing out then. I have seen the original… a few times, in fact. I own the dvd. I enjoy it. It’s fun to watch. It’s clear the guys are having a great time making it, and that’s infectious. It’s a fun glimpse into the style of the time. But it’s NOT a great film. It’s overly long and the plot is needlessly meandering. While there are some funny bits, most of the dialog is self-conscious and not as funny as it thinks it is. The ‘heist’ is laughable. The acting, even by actors who have proven themselves to be stellar actors in other roles, is only so-so. It’s the type of film I’ve always said should be the ones that are remade… a film that had a great idea, but only marginally executed. Don’t remake great films; remake films that had potential and missed the mark. That’s the reason, in my opinion, remakes so often suck… they try to remake films that were already great. The bar is set way too high to begin with. The original Ocean’s 11 was the perfect candidate for that… it’s a decidedly mediocre film, with a great idea.
The remake is, while not perfect, a very good film. Beautifully shot, tightly scripted, with a very clever heist, great acting, a ton of memorable scenes and lines. If you haven’t seen it because of a self-imposed (if admittedly, usually true) idea that remakes always suck, you’re missing out.
The subject of this particular thread, though… Ocean’s 12… yeah, that was a very bad film, sadly. Far from ‘worst film ever’, but definitely not good.
Joey: Wait a minute. I know you. You’re Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. You play basketball for the Los Angeles Lakers. Roger Murdock: I’m sorry son, but you must have me confused with someone else. My name is Roger Murdock. I’m the co-pilot. Joey: You are Kareem. I’ve seen you play. My dad’s got season tickets. Roger Murdock: I think you should go back to your seat now Joey. Right Clarence? Captain Oveur: Nahhhhhh, he’s not bothering anyone, let him stay here. Roger Murdock: But just remember, my name is
[showing his nametag] Roger Murdock: ROGER MURDOCK. I’m an airline pilot.
Joey: I think you’re the greatest, but my dad says you don’t work hard enough on defense.
[Kareem’s getting mad] Joey: And he says that lots of times, you don’t even run down court. And that you don’t really try… except during the playoffs. Roger Murdock: The hell I don’t. LISTEN KID. I’ve been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I’m out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
“Worst Film Ever” was clearly hyperbolic. But it is true to say that i was more disappointed in Ocean’s Twelve than i have been in any other movie for quite a while.
I really liked the first one, i’m a big fan of Soderbergh, i think virtually all of the actors are likable and talented, and it’s shot in great locations. The sequel seemed like a no-brainer for an evening of diverting entertainment. But in my opinion, they not only failed to make a good heist movie, they basically sold out anyone in their audience who chose the movie expecting the same sort of qualities that made the first one so appealing.
If “experiment” and “improvisational” are code-words for “formulaic failure” and “cliched catastrophe,” i agree.
That is, i think, one of the worst things about this movie for me: even if it’s trying to be improvisational, it ends up as nothing but a by-the-numbers heist film without a plot, without any tightness or continuity, and without any sense of suspense whatsoever.
As i said earlier, i can forgive plot holes and other cliches in a good heist movie. For example, i knew from the beginning that, whatever her role as a lawmaker, Catherine Zeta-Jones’ character was going to be won over again by Brad Pitt’s roguish charm and end up with the crew at the end of the movie. And i knew that there were going to be a bunch of twists to keep the audience on edge. And i knew there was going to be some completely ridiculous technology that they never could have gotten for a real-life heist (the electromagnetic pulse in O11; the holographic egg in O12).
Even with all this formulaic stuff, i was still prepared to like the movie. I wouldn’t have chosen it otherwise. But what you all improvisational, i just saw as a complete failure of writing and directing.
There are times when i can appreciate what a film-maker was trying to do, even if he or she doesn’t pull it off perfectly. But to “give them props” for something that i felt didn’t work at all? Sorry. Luckily, i only paid Netflix rates to see this film. If i had forked over ten or twelve bucks at the cinema, i would have felt like the heist victim.
Its watchability was low enough that i’ll never find out about its rewatchability.
As others have said, they shouldn’t.
I watch movies, especially movies like this, for a bit of escapism, not to be reminded that they are all multi-millionaire actors on a jaunt through Europe. Even in cases where breaking the fourth wall is done with skill and subtlety, i find it distracting, and in this case it was just one big jarring mess.
That would have elicited a small laugh from me on “Whose Line is it Anyway?” or “Wait! Wait! Don’t Tell Me,” but in the movie it came across as forced and unnecessary. I don’t know if it truly was improvised, or if it was part of the prepared script, but either way it was hardly sublime, IMO.
Yeah, all the reviews i’ve read suggest that 13 is back up to the standard of 11, perhaps even better. Still not sure if i’m going to bother, though.
I agree. Ocean’s 11 is the only film I can think of off the top of my head where the remake was better than the original. The original was a fun a little movie, but as you mentioned the newer film had a lot more style, charisma and much better pacing and plotting.
You’re right. When it comes to acting, he’s better than Sinatra.
I loved the original Ocean’s Eleven, don’t get me wrong. I liked it a lot. I originally avoided the remake for the exact same reason you did; I liked the original and I didn’t want to get pissed off at a lousy remake.
But when I saw the newer one, well…it’s the movie that made me fall in man-love with Clooney, Pitt, and Damon. The entire cast is simply incredible, and it’s just so, so much fun to watch.
I thought Brad Pitt’s body language in one of the first sceneswhen CZ-J was recounting from their bed how she found clues (that would lead to him) was pretty funny. It gave me hope. Alas…
I tried watching this shortly after it came out and basically couldn’t. The scene transition music was so loud compared to the dialogue that I found I spent all movie turning the volume up to hear the dialogue then turning it down so the scene transition wouldn’t deafen me. Horrible. Ocean’s Twelve was the first movie I ever watched where this was an issue but sadly I’ve been noticing it in a lot of newer movies lately. And some TV shows for that matter. But still none has been quite so bad as Ocean’s Twelve. Probably because each scene was like 30 seconds long and had around 10 seconds of transition music between them.
The Thomas Crown Affair (although it Hollywooded out the ending), and The Quiet American (though the latter was probably intended as a readaptation of the book rather than a remake of the previous film).
They don’t break the fourth wall (in which the character addresses the camera directly, and by extension, the audience) but rather metareference, where they reference the real world outside the created universe of the film. This is hardly unique; the opening of Ocean’s Eleven had Pitt tutoring a collection of young stars in (badly) playing poker, implying that they’re the next group of “Rat Pack” replacements (obviously not quite ready for prime time). I would have to agree, though, that in this case it doesn’t work, instead resulting in a drawn out scene that is painfully unfunny.
Still, “worst movie ever” is hyperbolic. It’s not a good movie, but it is no Highlander II: The Quickening. If this is the worst movie the o.p. has ever seen he should be glad that he’s missed the real dregs of cinema.
I’ve played a lot of roleplaying games in my day. Thing is, while they are usually good fun for the players, they are almost never fun or interesting for a spectator to watch. Seems like this movie goes along with that: The actors had barrels of fun; the audience, not so much.
I disliked Ocean’s 12 so much that I never even bothered to watch Ocean’s 13. Mercifully, I no longer remember most of the movie, other than the aforementioned Julia Roberts crap.
I agree that Ocean’s 11 is a far superior movie to the Ratpack original. It’s snappy, clever, incredibly charming, has good music and also pieces of great photography. I love watching it whenever it comes on.
The Julia/Julia maneouver simply makes my head hurt, there are so many things wrong with it. If they are comparing Julia’s character to the real life Julia Roberts, then the character in the film is not only a look-alike, but she is identical. And this was not noted anytime previously in *either *of the movies? Only when it became appropriate? You would think it’s something somebody would remark on.
I thought the laser dance thing was pretty corny and stupid as well, to be honest. Are we supposed to accept that he has memorized the pattern of every individual laser and keeps track of their rotations and cross-sections in the three-dimensional space, while dancing and jumping randomly?
Actually, they say in the movie that the movement of the lasers is random, so i think we’re expected to believe that he actually avoids them all on the fly, completely improvised.