Eleanor’s response was civil, well phrased, relevant, and didn’t include comments about not “giving a shit” (paraphrase of your words) about the OP. The “polite insincerity” comment is quoting you, her own phrase may have been less offensive and more qualified ("some southerners do zj aj fajdf af "). She doesn’t warrant expletives.
[Liam Neeson from Kingdom of Heaven]It wasn’t that he didn’t have a right… it was how he asked…[/Liam Neeson from *Kingdom of Heaven]
Very similar. You were never being “attacked” for not understanding what the big deal over flour was, it was the way you expressed it. It was thread-shitting.
And for what it’s worth, I do owe you an apology. I went too far on a couple of lines. They’re revoked, with sincere regret that I ever said them.
It occurs- Hannibal Lecter, the antihero whose cannibalistic preference was for “free range rude”, wasn’t southern… but his creator was from Mississippi and lived in Chicago. I wonder if that was where the inspiration come from. Very possible- I can see the fantasies it would inspire.
Bless you for my first real laugh of the day. I’m not going to leave you–we’re in this together, babe! The natives are restless and the time is fraught. (fraught with what, I dunno, I just love the word fraught). To the trenches! To arms, to arms! The South has arisen! (and without flour, too–they are fiendishly clever in their subversiveness…)
AK. AR. Whatever. Sampiro– you know the South does polite insincerity better than anyone except the British. The North needs to take lessons in how to make people squirm while maintaining a perfectly courteous and civil manner. The South is the multiple razor cuts you never feel until your lifeblood oozes from your side. The North is a bit more obvious and crude in its way–a brick to the head or a swift knockout punch.
Frankly, the subtle condescension and pithing of others is something I’ve always admired of the region. So, for you take **Jodi **to task for a true statement is a bit much. I just couldn’t let that one go. I think Jodi admires that Southern skill as well–lord knows it would come in handy on a cross exam.
It was nice of you to apologize. I think this flour thing has stirred some waters (there’s an image–maybe I’m making sourdough biscuits?).
IMO, I think that we (America) might have already changed and like so many other things, our cultural references haven’t caught up yet (a future shock of sorts). There are so many transplanted Northerners/immigrants living in the south now that the clannishness and regionalism will start to dilute (if it hasn’t already).
Time was my mother knew almost everyone in town when she would visit her aunts in Lexington KY. That time is long gone. Communities (well, larger cities) in the south have morphed into beings more closely resembling northern cities(Atlanta for one).
Women are in the workforce more, limiting the amount of Junior Leaguers/Guilds/church groups that used to hold sway (hold sway? try ironfisted grips in spotless white gloves) in communities throughout the south. It has happened here as well–small town or suburb Midwest has its share of social strata and tight-knitness.
Also, rural poverty, while still a problem, has a different face than it did around the Korean war (which is about where these stereotypes got frozen, IMO). Most poor folk have a TV, a phone, a meth lab (kidding!). They are not in tar paper shanties, with EllieMae wearing Daisy dukes and a falling off peasant blouse while Pappy makes moonshine in the holler, and the hounds snore on the saggy front porch with Grammaw fixin’ greens and puttin’ up preserves before Jethro comes back from huntin’ coon. Not that the face of modern poverty is pleasant or sanitized. A worn down mobile home has no charm.
So, the question becomes, how to move on from the stereotype? (and this holds true for the North as well. We are not ill mannered, in a hurry, city slickers/ Howard Hill types come to con your men and seduce your women–well, not all of us). Is it up to us? Yes, but we also have to hold the media accountable. I am thinking now of Suzanne on Designing Women who used to rant about just this issue and she did it well. If you see something that seems out of line, point it out, but point it out civilly because the person may have no intent to offend or may be ignorant of causing offense.
But I think (as I said) you can’t have it both ways: “We’re all such characters down here! Don’t call us characters!”. What needs to occur is for the South to find a way of maintaining its identity without alienating the other regions of the country (you all are not as foreign to us as you’d like to think you are. Our families matter to us, as does our food and our towns; we have eccentricities as well), and without exaggerating characteristics that also lend themselves to satire. Y’all have adorable accents, excellent manners, poise and social skills. Export that, instead of jokes about privies, overalls, salacious men, hot chicks, fast cars and likker.
The North has efficiency, organization and practicality on its side. Surely the two can be combined into a force to be reckoned with? A blending of the two, with a synergy that is exponential in its effect. I actually think stuff like this is already happening–look at Atlanta or the Triangle in SC. I think in 50 years, there will be a new south, respecting the past, but with eyes firmly fixed upon the future. And if there is a new south, the north must change as well.
Ok, so that’s a bit more high falutin’ and sounds like a political speech, but I hope you get my point.
And here’s where you just don’t get it. You don’t know anything about the South. Your “New South” has been around for decades. You just never noticed. I recognize you are posting against stereotypes, but you are still caught up in them.
[minor correction] The Triangle (Raliegh-Durham-Chapel Hill) is in North Carolina, not South Carolina. [/minor correction] And smiling bandit is right; the synergy you’re talking about is already in full swing, in places like Charlotte (banking) Raleigh-Durham (scientific and tech research), and Atlanta (pretty much everything).
I’m a huge fan of the so-called “New South.” It’s one of the reasons I don’t have complete patience for mourning over the Old South.
I was referring the change in the stereotypes. You bet I never noticed–I live near Chicago (but I was in Memphis 2 weeks ago for 48 hours helping my parents purge their house for their move to DC). OF COURSE I didn’t notice! I don’t live there day to day. What I do see is stuff in the media, stuff here, stuff in books etc. I don’t see this New South represented in the media or here–I am still seeing the one I described, because that’s the one that is “mourned” or lauded by Southerners.
Is your real name Moon Pie or what? (pssst–it’s a joke, playing on regionalism)
I’m a little hazy on where the unofficial dividing line is between West and Midwest. I usually say it’s the continuous (with the rest of the Union), non-coastal, non-Southern states which were involved in the Civil War.
Iowa and Kansas would be the borderline. One side is definitely Midwest, the other West. (Texas is Texas.)
The Midwest states are the ones with no mountains. The East and the South have the Appalachians, and Arkansas has the Ozarks, which barricade mountainless Florida and Lousiana for the south, respectivley. The Western states have the Rockies or the Sierra/Cascades.
Yes, Texas is Texas; so much so that it sucks mountainless Oklahoma away from the Midwest Plains into the Southwest.
And for the sake of usuaging Southern pride, I go on record as saying that the Yellow Rose of Texas does not in fact beat the belles of Tennessee. She has visible panty lines and looks terrible in pastels.
A more knowledgeable Londoner would call you a “Sceptic” [rhyming slane: sceptic tank = Yank]. Past threads have demonstrated that many Americans don’t see the funny side of this, and many Londoners find that it’s most amusing aspect.
That’s a good rejoinder for any brit who might actually call me a seppo. Now, to think of another less-than-intelligent equivalent for Australians if they were also to use the slightly stupid rhyming slang, in order to make fun of the genre by using a really stupid one – okay – BUTTS… Butt Flossy – Aussie!
Kind of a blunt instrument, though, don’t you think? Oh well, I guess “limey” or “roast beef” isn’t really going to get anyones goat with satisfaction.
I saw this, thought, forgive me, this was an appropriate place to put it. Sometimes the Old South lived a bit longer than we thought. It is an amazing place… but… sometimes, a pretty face can hide a evil mind.
That would still make slavery past tense by a minimum of 63 years. I guess his measure would have been the end of World War II. My first memory was of V-J Day. mea culpa?
I don’t think that anyone claims that the “New South” had begun by then. That would take almost two more decades in my opinion.
But do you really hear people mourning over the Old South anymore? I don’t! And I’m right here in Nashville. The only time I even hear a discussion of the Old South is on SDMB.
Mint juleps under the magnolia at five o’clock? (Or, if you prefer, boilermakers – Jack Daniel’s and Bud.)
