Of Yankees and Southerners

The BBQ Pit
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As a Hoosier transplanted to KNoxville, I saw fit to clear up a few misconceptions found in this thread.

First off, Southerners often see everyone who fought against them in the Civil War as Yankess. This is Bullshit, and this damned attitude is, frankly, one of the big reasons the Civil War started and why they lost. It’s a self-congratulatory cultural self-shittery which contains no truth.

That is to say, people from the West (say, past Kansas) and Midwest (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Illinois, Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Kansas) have very different attitudes, a more rural character than new England, and very diferent values. They are somewhat like the South. They are somewhat like new England. They are somewhat like the West. Deal with it.

We (amazing, I know) do not like being called Yankees, and if you are too damned stupid to recognize the difference, fuck off. and die, assbitch. Any mor than you probably like being called “Yank” by ignorant Londoners.
Now, onto you Yanks and other non-Southerners of various persuasions…

When you decide that all Southerners are stupid, racist hicks living in the hills, too bucktoothed, inbred, and generally imbecilic, I have news for you. The South is an amazing place. Without fail, you are revealing that you are the ignorant rube wallowing in his or her own prejudices and preconceptions, and they are the sophisticates. In nearly every case as well, the insultor comes from a backwards, crime-ridden, racist, poverty-stricken blight whereas the insultee happens to live in a clean, vibrant and racially and culturally diverse urban/suburban/rural zone.
On other, smaller notes - Knoxville is a fine city and we’re unhappy with Smuckers’ decision. The Civil War was not popular in East tennessee, which was heavily pro-Union and suffered outrageously for it (and was supressed brutally by the filthy, freakish traitor Jeff Davis, May He Burn In Hell). Yes, Knoxville Proper was pro-South, but it was a relatively tiny city and whole region was Pro-Union. As far as anyone can tell, the decision to move the White Lilly Plant was surprising and was apparently not anticipated by the previousowner; many people are outright confused by this move.

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Does this actually happen here? If so, please show where.

3

Here we go again (link has sound).

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Actually, I think of those who fought against the south in the Civil War as dead. It wouldnt’ surprise me if a couple of widows from one side or the other may be alive out there, but they were non-combatants.

The Civil War started because the south saw the people who fought against them in the Civil War as Yankees? I’ve heard the quote attributed to George Hearst, Josh Billings, and others, so I’m not sure of its authority, but “That don’t make good sense… hell, that don’t even make good nonsense”.

It doesn’t bother me to be called Yank. It’s what some English people and others call Americans, same as we call them Brits. It’s not a pejorative.

I have ancestors who were in the Knoxville campaign (before that I have an ancestor [James White] who founded Knoxville) so I developed an interest in the region and the war there while doing genealogical research. I’ve studied the Tennessee Campaigns for a long time and in great detail, and the city of Knoxville itself to some extent. I’ve read the diaries of generals and soldiers from both sides as well as of Tennesse farmers and shopkeepers and even whores (reading recommendation for the latter) and generally speaking Tennessee’s loyalty was all over the map during the war. It was probably the most divided state in the nation and most people, quite understandably, tended to side with whichever army was occupying their region at the time (which changed every Thursday during 1862-1863). Fascinating campaign all in all-- there were more than a few privates from Tennessee who fought consecutively in both armies even, as well as families whose sons split in their loyalties. (Jack Daniels himself never fought as he was too young and too short [though he made a fortune selling liquor to both sides] but he had brothers in both armies and at least one of his brothers was in both.)
Anyway, I’m actually planning a Civil War tour of Knoxville and East Tennessee this summer, but it’s a fascinating history. Among the most complex regions of the most complex war we’ve fought…

I’m sorry, what was the OP again?

Oh yeah, Goo-Goo clusters. They’re good, but I prefer the original to the peanut butter.

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I have no problems with this OP. I used the term “Damn Yankee” quite deliberately in the other thread, for a quite specific purpose. I certainly do not go around calling transplanted Northerners “Damn Yankees” (well, yes I do, but it’s usually after we’ve gotten all drunk and sloppy together, and we’re joshing each other around.) I have nothing in particular against Northerners as a whole, and I think this perceived insularity gets overstated in most cases. Most any given Southerner is polite, friendly, and helpful, if approached with friendliness and respect.

As for the Southern portion of your OP, well said.

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Unfortunately, some Southerns seem intent on refighting the thing every damn generation.

I didn’t say it made sense; it is damned nonsense. But Southerns of ythe day got themselves into a huge persecution complex. Frankly, they not only made the preconditions fo the Civil War, they united the country against them though repeated assholish behavior. Abolition as a national force and the Republican Party itself were both ironically Southern creations.

Maybe for West and Central Tennessee, but not in the East, which was very pro-Union and under Confederate domination until the Chattanooga campaign late in 1863. Pro-Unio sentiment was suppressed by the Confederate Army, but was very real and led to significant rebellion and sabotage until clamped down on.

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Regionalism. Great. We needed another “-ism” to hate people over, did we? Isn’t dividing ourselves up by country enough to let everyone satisfy the human urge to insult an arbitrary group of people we’ve never met? We’re all Americans here; isn’t getting our rocks off calling the French “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” supposed to unite us all under one banner? No? Do we need to break it down by state now, or are we going to have to think up stupid-ass epithets for residents of every other city, so we can hurl them about every time one of 'em does something we don’t like?

Me, I’m thinking that labeling and judging people based on geographical location is pretty fucking stupid any way you slice it. (Even moreso when your justification is that people decided to kill each other over it 150 years ago. You weren’t there. Your mom wasn’t there. Nobody fucking alive today was there. Get the fuck over it.) How about we all just knock it off, and save our insults for the individual assbitches that deserve them?

Goddamn.

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Shut up, you stupid Roanie.

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I think the last one died in June or July of 2004.

Edit: It was May 31.

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What in the Sam Hill are you on about? Did the Smucker’s plant say they’re going to move?

Did I miss something? (probably).
I will read the linked to thread. Here are some random thoughts I’d like to share:

I have Southern relatives from Kentucky and Virginia. Mostly they’re nice, some are jerks. I have New England (MA, ME, VT and NH) relatives, ditto. I consider myself a Midwesterner, despite Yankee and Southern roots.

Ignorance and rank stupidity are found everywhere. Here’s the thing (for me): you all (general you) can’t consider yourselves the eccentric aunts and uncles of the country–the “family” characters, and not expect some caricaturing to go on. You play up the accent, the canniness of the Southern good ole boy sticking it to the city slicker and all, and then complain when those same stereotypes are used critically. Hee Haw played on these types–played on them quite well, with a tongue firmly in cheek. But some of it’s not in cheek and that’s the part that irks me.

If I hear one more time about how my FIL is “jest a simple country boy” (him with the chemical engineering degree), I may puke ON him. And he’s only from southern Ohio–he doesn’t even have Spanish moss hanging off him and syrup oozing from his lips. You can’t have it both ways. Really. If Boss Hog and those Duke brothers are celebrated, and the North (damned Yankees-heh) is characterized as nasty, you’re gonna get blowback.

The South is full of wonderful, bright people, but it is just as full of ignorant, close-minded folks*. IMO, since the clannishness is played upon so heavily, the down side of that gets more play, too. Me, I tend to worry a bit when I see Bible verses engraved above garage doors. That does not say “multicultural people welcome” to me. I’ve never seen that anywhere else (haven’t been to rural Utah lately, though).

It sounds like I’m down on the South. I’m not, really. What I’m trying to say, very inarticulately, is that I get tired of the corn pone nonsense. You want to be taken seriously? Then stop making everything into a Faulkner novel, or worse, a continuation of Gone With The Wind. (this is NOT directed at our own dear Sampiro, whose stories have entertained me for years now, but stems from a woman from AK near me who just. won’t. let. it. go. I swear she becomes MORE Southern the longer she lives here --going on 20 years now. I long to tell her that birth below that ole Mason-Dixon line does not automatically confer a more interesting heritage or a superior character, but I digress.)

The Civil War is fascinating, yes–but it was 150+ years ago. It’s OVER. Get over it. Sorry, but it’s so exasperating to hear this kind of whining. If anything, I think there is more cultural chauvinism coming out of the South. You’re not superior because you had a tragic past–the nations shares that tragic past. You lost a bloody (literally) awful war that wiped out whole families and communities. You are an important part of the USA–what is with the chip on the shoulder?
*just like the rest of the country. Thing is, we don’t make a big deal out of where you come from, who your great grandmother married, and where you settle down. Geography (regional) matters more in the South, heaven knows why. I’d actually enjoy this if I didn’t feel the hostility to “outsiders” hovering under (can something hover under? It can now) that famous Southern hospitality.

Ok, enough of my random thoughts.

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Mississippian here:

The South has an inferiority complex. I realize this is a broad brush, but there’s no way to avoid it in this thread. I know we’re all unique little snowflakes and all, but there is a valid argument to be made here. In the deep South, if someone goes up north and comes back with an accent, it’s not just weird, it’s as if they think they’re better than us. That deserves ridicule. It’s also known as the tall poppy syndrome and it’s very much in place in the South. It’s also true of Northerners who relocate to the deep South.

This is true on first glance. Now after a while a Southerner will look past that and see the person. Depending on several factors at least. This is the way my parents are and everyone I grew up with is.

As far as I can tell up here, the South is looked down upon as backwards. This feeds the southern stereotype that all Northerners think they are better than the South. Really in reality the South is the whipping boy for the rest of the country. This is also true for damn near any nation. One particular region will get the brunt of the jokes. In Spain you have Galacia, Denmark you have the South-West coast, in Canada you have Alberta, etc…

Notice there’s no particular animosity between the midwest and east coast. Sure there are some jabbing rivalries and such but nothing like the amount of ridicule that goes on towards the South.

Unfortunately Southerners react to this in the wrong way. A lot of it is an immense pride for all things Southern. Some things do deserve pride, but others don’t. The confederate flag is a unique southern symbol, yet they ought to be left alone. But so many refuse it not only for racist reasons but also for cultural reasons. There are non-racists that probably have an affinity for the confederate flag, but I’d imagine that Venn diagrams there are pretty inclusive.

I think it’s a complicated relationship though. I get a lot of weird looks when I tell people I’m from Mississippi. But who am I to hold a grudge against an entire part of the country?

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I thought it was Newfies and Quebec?

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Um, okay. I read the linked to thread.

Holy shit is about all I can say. Note to self: READ first, then post.

That said, I have to take issue with a bunch of things in that thread.

  1. The South DOES indeed do “polite insincerity” quite well and it IS an expected behavior, bless your heart.

  2. It is just flour… now, stay with me, it is NOT just flour to the OP and to most of the Southern posters. I get that, I really do. (I also refuse to shop at Macy’s, btw). It is hard to see yet another relied upon, valued institution go the way of the dodo bird. I get it. I do. But I don’t expect everyone to get it and I don’t think that those who choose not to get upset about it are bigoted towards Southerners. Get a grip.

  3. This whole SDMB has an anti-Southern bigotry is silly. If anything, the SDMB is contrary and cantankerous in its “position” on just about anything. Try admitting to not liking sex or guns or not being a Doug Adam’s fan or fill in the blank.

  4. I think you’re being hypersensitive, but that’s your right. I dislike the term Damned Yankees or damnyanks or whatever, because I dislike name calling. It says more about the person doing the calling then the person so called.

  5. I don’t get the whole thing. I get the anger and sadness over the loss of a familiar product. I get that you’re proud of where you come from. I don’t get the rest of it.

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My mother and all her kin are from Alabama.

My father and his relatives are from Minnesota.

So that’s it!

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Just checking in…

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Damn straight. We’re too busy persecuting Christians.

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Can’t we all just get along? :slight_smile:

My family has deep Yankee New England roots. Very deep. I grew up mostly in New England, but did live in the south at times. I found Southerners to be nice, polite, and fun to be around. They treated us well and offered us plenty of southern hospitality. But really, folks, we don’t want your flour so much-- trust me on this. If you really need it to make biscuits then open your own damn mill and don’t sell it to anyone. Are there no Southern entrepeneurs who can recognize a good business deal when they see it? Sheesh!!

Gotta say, that I’m glad to be out in CA now and away from all that bullshit.

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Rigs, I already accidentally tripped that grenade, there’s no need for you to be blown up as well. No doubt our southern gentlemen have a limitless supply of “[negative adjective] bitches” to throw; no need to give 'em multiple targets. Run for the exit; I’ll draw their fire. SAVE YOURSELF! AND TELL MY MOM I LOVE HER!

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<snip>

Alaska is south of the Mason-Dixon line?

You were thinking maybe of AR - Arkansas?

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If it makes you feel any better, to me, all Americans are Yankees.