Having been born in Washington DC and moving all over the continental US during my long stint as a military brat (before I too joined the military to venture into far off and exotic deserts, er, places), I must say that I fart in all your general directions as a rootless wanderer, with no regional or state loyalties to speak of and no accent to my English.
thumbs nose
Deal. 
Total hijack. Sorry, just saw the link, thought it was relevant, sort of.
Jodi, I am familiar with Cary. Are you aware that it is not at all a typical Southern town?
Less than 30% of its residents are from North Carolina. That has earned it the nickname of Containment Area for Relocated Yankees. Mind you, its reputation has spread from the middle of North Carolina to the middle of Tennessee.
It is a beautiful small city with wealthy, highly educated people from out of state. My husband and I had the unpleasant experience of spending several Christmases with two of them who ridiculed everything about Southern culture including the dialect we speak. I believe their ill manners came from their ignorance and not from the place of their birth in New England. We have spent too much time on the coast of Maine to think ill of New Englanders.
At any rate, stereotypes that say that we are stuck in the past have no grain of truth to them. People who say that many people in the South are interested in history may be speaking the truth. That is quite different.
There is good reason that we are not so interested in the Revolutionary War. Most areas of the South were occupied by American Indians only at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course. But for the most part, there was no there there. My G-G-G-G-Grandfather had his comission signed by John Hancock and I know where he’s buried in North Carolina. That’s all I know. But there was a Civil War battle where I live. And my grandfather fought in a battle thirty miles away. I have the letters he wrote to get his pension. It is natural to be more interested in that which is near to me.
I hope that you will be happy in your new home. I hope they open up to you and you to them. You’ve always seemed sensible and pleasant to me. (Not at all like the people we had to deal with every Christmas in Cary. And that was just two residents who didn’t seem to be typical.)
Of course; that’s why I chose it as my example, so I could include the line about Indian tech professionals as an oblique way of acknowledging that the South can be multicultural and modern. So I’m not sure why you’re pointing on that it’s not “typical” of the South, as if that refutes something I said. Any yes, “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees” – ha ha ha. I don’t live there, but I bet that never ceases to amuse those who do.
First, I never said anyone was “stuck in the past.” But, second, I think there’s a mighty fine line between being “interested in history” and being so in a way that might strike others (outsiders) as, as uou say, “stuck in the past.” Third, again and with respect, I don’t think you’re in a position to tell me what does or does not have a grain of truth to it, when we are talking about my experiences.
This is mostly a hijack but . . . This is what I find so amazing: That you as a Southerner would think this. I guess it depends on where you live, but where I live, it is completely inaccurate. There is a lot of pre-Civil War history in my state (North Carolina), and it isn’t all confined to the coast. Asheville was founded aroud 1780. Hillsborough in 1754. Charlotte in 1786. As far as the Revolutionary War specifically is concerned: The British planned and executed an entire Southern campaign, which saw Cornwallis invading North Carolina from the North. In South Carolina, division as to which side to support in the War had the colony in what was essentially a state of civil war between Loyalists and Patriots. Cornwallis’s Southern campaign cumulated in the Battle of King’s Mountain, near Charlotte on the North Carolina/South Carolina border, hundreds of miles from the coast. Arguably the single most important battle in the late war, King’s Mountain was a resounding victory for the Southern Patriots and showed that the British could not rely on assumed Loyalist support from Georgia and the Carolinas to turn the tide of the war.
So as a response to why people don’t talk about that history much, I am completely unpersuaded by the assertion that there just wasn’t much of it going on. But again, maybe this is regional and nothing was going on in your neck of the woods, I don’t know. Here endeth the hijack.
Thanks. Backatcha.
Jodi, I agree with you that people here don’t pay due attention to their Revolutionary War history. Most people are completely unaware that there are Revolutionary War battlefields to be seen within easy driving distance. I suspect the reason is that in the popular mind the Revolution is most closely associated with Boston and Philadelphia, and it just doesn’t occur to locals that there was fighting in their own back yards. (In fact, the war was won in the South. The failure of the Southern Campaign doomed the British cause.)
The other factor is that a lot of Southerners have known genealogical connections to the Civil War, whereas Southern genealogy tends to get very fuzzy in the antebellum era (between courthouse fires and the fact that much of the South was frontier during that era), and most Southerners, if they have an ancestor who fought in the Revolution, just don’t know it. For that matter, most Southerners don’t think about their connection to the Jamestown Colony the way many Northerners do about their connection to the Mayflower. (Though based on my own research, I’d be willing to bet that a majority of those of Southern heritage could claim at least one Jamestown ancestor – if they only knew it.)
I know! But that’s my point: Not just that there is some amazing extra-Civil War history down here – for me, the maritime history is particularly fascinating, aguably better ship building than in Boston – but it’s not just that Northerners don’t know that, a lot of Southerners don’t either.
And I completely undestand a focus on the Civil War due to both closer personal assoication (relatives who fought in it) and, well, just the dislocating regional horror of it, which also feels personal. But my point is that there is a reason people perceive that Southern history is all about the Civil War; to a great extent IME that’s not just Historical Topic 1 on the South, but HTs 1 through 10, even down here. There is a historical focus on the Civil War, though I suppose we could argue abou whether it’s disproportional or not. But I don’t think it’s fair to say that’s just my perception, or just my personal POV. Note that I am not saying anyone is “living in the past,” or “throwing history in my face,” or any of that. But there is IME some truth to the assertion that the South’s collective historical focus tends to be pretty narrow. I wish it were broader, not because I think the Civil War deserves less attention, but because IME history down here is some much richer than that.
I share your frustration.
Jamestown gets neglected in favor of the Mayflower for some reason I’ve never comprehended. Southerners just don’t think much about their colonial history.
The South’s later frontier history is also very interesting. Everybody’s heard of Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, but in most people’s minds, when they hear the word “frontier” it conjures up images of the West, not the South. (Much of which, of course, used to be “the West.”)
Everyone knows about the Trail of Tears, but few know about the conflicts that preceded it.
No one talks much or thinks much about the Creek War or the Seminole Wars, or Andrew Jackson’s campaign in what is now Alabama. (There is a very fine museum and well-maintained battlefield at Horseshoe Bend, incidentally.) Nobody thinks or talks much about the Fort Mims massacre, and its effects on subsequent history (culminating in the aforementioned Trail of Tears).
Few think about the history of the coastal South as a pirate haven. In the popular mind, pirates are associated with Caribbean islands.
Few think about the Spanish history that preceded the English history here, or the several Spanish missions scattered about the South in locations now unknown.
Not many folks think or know about the South’s history of progressive populism, or its association with The People’s Party. Most folks just assume the South has always been a bastion of economic conservatism.
I understand intellectually why people who are interested in history tend to focus on the great horrible of the Civil War, but it is frustrating. There is a lot of other interesting history around.
Jodi, I did not say that the South din’t have a history before the Civil War. Read what I said:
I could have phrased that better:
“Most areas of the South were occupied by only American Indians at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course.”
Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia are all on the East Coast.
The Revolutionary War ended in 1789.
Atlanta was founded in 1837.
Memphis was founded in 1820.
Jackson, Mississippi was founded in 1821.
Montgomery, Alabama was founded in 1816.
Knoxville was founded in 1794
Birmingham was founded in 1871
Chattanooga was founded in 1815
Savannah was founded one hundred years before Atlanta.
And Charlotte was not founded in 1786 as you said. (I assume that was a typo.) The first couple settled there in 1853 and it was incorporated and became the county seat in 1868. It is more than one hundred years older than Birmingham.
As I said before, there was no there there.
But you are so wrong when you say that our focus is narrower! We are enormously proud of our American Indian heritage here. We study it, celebrate it, honor it, and protest when that heritage is disrespected. We have exhibits in museums, special interest groups, powwows, and an observance of the Trail of Tears that continues to grow every year.
We also have a love of geneology and trace our lines back wherever they lead our focuses.
As for Rep. David Crockett, one of his houses was four miles up the road from where I grew up. My first cousin is the curator there. I call him Rep. Crockett because he was the Congressman from my District back before he took that dang fool interest in Texas.
Cary isn’t typical of a Southern town and that’s why you chose it as an example of a Southern town? Hmmm.
I don’t think that you can get a very accurate image of Southerners by observing what non-Southerners do.
I thought that it was rather crass myself. There is no accounting for taste.
I am a little curious about why your posts had been phrased in such a way that any reader would normally have assumed that you live in Cary.
These quotations are posted sequentially and are excerpted from this thread:
See larger font above. You said that the stereotypes that say that Southerners are “stuck in the past” have a grain of truth to them."
Look who’s talkin’, woman! You are telling me that the stereotype about Southerners is somewhat true; therefore you are talking about me and my people, but I’m not allowed to comment on YOUR experiences or estimations about my people. Oh joy!
And I am in a very good position to tell you that your impressions of Southerners are very limited and lacking in essential background information. (See post on Revolutionary War.) I have lived in the South for 65 years. My ancestors have lived in the South for ten generations before me. They sat in the House of Burgesses a hundred years before George Washington.
Cary? Multi-cultural?
If you want a real multi-cultural community, come and see my neighborhood. I had the privilege of seeing people vote of the Iraqi government. And that’s only one of about nine ethnic groups or nationalities in South Nashville. There is even a sign up in front of one business that says, “We Speak English.”
You have no idea how narrow the focus of others can seem to me.
When you get your stories all straight and can make some sense as you usually do, come on back and be reasonable.
Kinda.
(snicker Marthasville snicker)
What do Southerners think when Northerners borrow y’all’s mannerisms? Such as “y’all’s”? Or the wearing of seersucker and white bucks in summertime? (Midwesterners also did this years ago thanks to our miserable humidity. Nowadays you’re liable to get calls of “Ice Cream Man” or “don’t step in cow flop.” Easterners just assume you have a Tennessee Williams fixation.)
Whatever consenting seers do behind closed doors is their own business.
Right, but most areas of the North were also occupied by only American Indians at the time of the Revolution.
It IS a Southern town. Unless you’re exempting North Carolina from the South. I never said it was “typical,” in fact the entire reason I cited it was as an implied example of the multicultural nature of the South. As I’ve already said. So you seem to have pretty much missed my point in that regard. Hmmm, indeed.
This seems obvious. What did I say that led you to believe I’ve lived here for three years and yet only “observed” non-Southerners?
They weren’t intentionally phrased that way, but I don’t actually care where people assume I live. I can’t see the relevance. I’ve already said I live in North Carolina.
Correct. And I’ve been pretty careful, pretty reasonable, and pretty damn polite in further clarifying that. But there’s no question that this is an accurate generalization of my experience, and that neither you nor anyone else is in a position to say that’s wrong.
You can comment all you want on YOUR experiences and YOUR estimations. You have no basis to comment on me or mine. I am not talking about you; I don’t know you. I don’t know who you consider “your people” – except that you apparently exclude the good people of Cary.
Unlike you, I have never tried to assert that your experiences or conclusions are – must be – incorrect. It’s a funny POV, IMO: as if there’s no room for reality between “no stereotypical accuracy whatsoever” or “every Southern is a complete caricature”, with me implicitly adopting the latter opinion, of course. In fact, I pretty clearly never said anything like that, and I will consistently refute every attempt to construe my opinions that way.
People are willing to accept that there is a Southern ethos, a Southern culture, and Southern frame of mind. But they want to completely deny that so much as a grain of accuracy might exist in Southern stereotypes – which is the most I’ve ever said – as if Southern stereotypes and Southern culture are completely divorced, one magically arising without any relation to the other. To me, it defies common sense.
You can say whatever you like; I will give it the weight I think it deserves. For example, you are now saying that because North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia or coastal states, the entirety of them may be described as “coastal.” You simultaneously say that you “value and honor” your Native American heritage but also say that when most of the South was occupied only by Native Americans, “there was no there there.” Frankly, I don’t think these arguments needing specifc refutation by me; I think any one reading them can judge their merits.
There’s nothing that needs straightening out in my “stories.” There’s nothing in them that lacks in sense or coherency. I do not grant you the authority to sit in judgment over their accuracy, validity, or value. I don’t give a good god damn if you agree with me or not; I don’t give a good god damn if you even believe me or not. I’ve been pretty careful in explaining my opinions and experiences in a way that was (I hoped) not insulting or divisive, while still being honest and true. But that is not enough for you – or, apparently, for the two or three other over-senstive Southern apologists on this Board – you want me to admit I’m wrong, when I don’t think I am, or deny my experience, which I obviously cannot do.
If there are materials you would like to direct me to, I’d be happy to read them. If there are places you’d like to suggest I visit to correct my IYO skewed view, I would be happy to visit them if possible. But I’m done pretending patience with people who want to try to argue me out of my own conclusions, or who want to high-handedly tell me I must be wrong just because they wish I were.
I feel like my position has been made clear and probably can’t be made clearer. I’m also losing my patience, and I’ve already promised someone else I’d try to do better in that regard. I’ll check back for any of the suggestions I referred to, but other than that, I’m done with this thread.
Newfoundlanders, but that pales in comparison to the ridicule of the backwardness of the Americans. Confederate v. Yankee? Might as well be Beavis v. Butt-head.