Story here - VIDEO: Former GPD Officer Files Lawsuit After Gunstore Incident
Should he have been able to trust that the display gun was unloaded? Should the store be sued? Is he at fault for unsafe gun handling even if the gun should have been clear?
As an aside why would a gun in a counter for sale ever have live rounds in it?
A)It’s the officer’s fault, period. He should have handled it like it was live, even if he knew it wasn’t.
B)He racked the slide, but it didn’t look like he checked it, I think he was just checking the recoil spring tension. But he probably expected a bullet to pop out if it was loaded. The magazine must have been loaded, but without anything in the chamber.
C)It was the officer’s fault for having his finger inside the trigger guard, from what I can tell, it was there right from the start. Some people, very few though, put their finger around the guard, instead of down the barrel, but it looked like it was on the trigger.
D)It was the officer’s fault for having his hand in front of the barrel.
As for why it was loaded, short of being a stupid mistake, I’d guess they have a range there and it was probably being used at the range and someone (well, probably by mistake) didn’t pull the bullets out of the magazine before putting it back in the case.
Again, if I wasn’t clear, it’s the officer’s fault. He should have checked to make sure it wasn’t loaded before he pulled the trigger. At least he only hurt himself and didn’t shoot one of those other people in the back. He’s the people that give the people who have no problem with gun ownership a bad name.
Ultimatly, he may be able to sue the gun store for having loaded gun in the case, but it’s still his fault for pulling the trigger without making sure it wasn’t loaded first. Take the magazine out, check it to make sure it’s empty, rack the slide, check the barrel for a bullet, but the magazine back in, then pull the trigger, pointed away from your hand or anyone else to feel the force it takes to make it shoot. He racked the slide (and put one in the chamber), but he never made sure it wasn’t loaded…it was his fault.
Rule number one of firearm safety: all firearms are loaded. All of them. Even wooden ones that shoot rubber bands. They are all loaded.
He should have known better.
Absolutely the officer’s fault.
However, the gunshop should be held equally liable as it’s beyond careless to have a loaded weapon in any display case. If it’s a rental, it’s supposed to be confirmed cleared when the customer hands it in.
+1000.
If this rule were followed without fail, the number of gun deaths and injuries would be markedly lower.
Well, first of all, I’ve never had a pistol handed to me from a case at a store where the employee didn’t lock the slide open first and check it. That still didn’t prevent me from pulling the magazine to make sure it was unloaded and looking at the chamber myself. And even if I dry fire it, I make sure it’s pointed in a safe direction.
This. I’ve never had a gun store employee not check completely, including pull out the magazine, before handing me a gun. That the gun store employee didn’t do this makes me think he is at least partly at fault, but the bulk of the blame goes to the officer who did not follow the first rule of gun safety.
I know next to nothing about guns, and even I know that assuming the thing isn’t loaded is a recipe for disaster. Seems like he was lucky not to kill someone.
Just MHO, but even though every gun owner will say the same thing (and hopefully do the same thing) about always checking…
I feel the customer has a fair case in saying that there was a reasonable expectation that no loaded weapons would be handed to them. The liability is the store’s, not the unfortunate but careless officer. Again, just my opinion.
The store cannot control the gun safety habits of the clientele, so they must be absolutely certain that no customer can accidentally shoot someone.
Like I said above, the officer is the last to handle, it’s on him.
I don’t feel he should recover anything from the shop but the shop should still face some damn stiff fines (OSHA?) for their part.
While you’re right, if I bought a brand new gun, opened the cellophane wrapped box and took it out myself, I’d still check it before I pulled the trigger. Especially if someone else opened (even in front of me) and handed it to me. Even more so if it was someone I didn’t know. Besides, the clerk didn’t clear it, so he had no way of knowing it wasn’t loaded.
On top of all that, I would never, ever ever pull the trigger, even if I was cleaning a gun, with my hand in front of it.
Even if we ignore not checking it to see if it was live, the fact that he had his hand in front of it and his finger on the trigger while he was handling it, he was showing some pretty awful habits. Seemed like he was going to accidentally discharge a firearm sooner or later. Also, you’ll notice that some of the time he even has it pointed at the clerk and at the other customers at the top of the screen. Again, that’s poor gun safety practices. Never point a gun at someone else, even if it’s not loaded.
We’ll probably never find out unless it comes out in court, but I wonder what his colleagues are thinking? Is it 1)I can’t believe that happened to him, he’s always so careful or 2)I was always nervous around him when he had his gun out of his holster. I’m just glad I wasn’t there when it finally happened.
Yup. All guns are assumed to be loaded. Period.
Just a quick FTR, it looks like this happened almost a year ago, it’s in the news now because he just filed a suit against them (or something is happening with the suit).
Any practical blame is shared.
IMHO any potential legal liability is 100% the store’s. He should’ve been more diligent but the were many checks failed.
If the store has a range then they probably shouldn’t be using their stock and certainly shouldn’t be selling dirty guns.
This resonates a lot with me. There is no requirement that any potential customer at a gun store has had any sort of gun safety training. Or the background check that they’ll have to get if they want to buy a gun. Now in this case, yeah, it was a cop, and he should have known better (and yeah, any potential gun customer should know better, but many don’t). I would be pretty surprised if a jury or judge didn’t assign at least some proportion of the fault to the store
It’s solely the officer’s fault, nobody else to blame but himself…
The Four Rules of firearm safety;
1; all guns are always loaded - he violated this one
2; never point a gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy - violated
3; keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire - violated
4; know your target, and what is beyond it - violated
It’s entirely the officer’s fault, as soon as he took possession of the weapon, he should have cleared it, for a magazine-fed firearm, that means…
1; remove the magazine
2; work the action to eject any chambered round (it’s safest to work the action at least 2-3 times, in case the ejector doesn’t work
3; lock the action back/open, and visually inspect the chamber for any stuck cartridges
4; feel inside the chamber for any stuck cartridges
It’s easy to say that, but knowing those are not legal requirements for owning a gun. There are basically no requirements in most states for coming into a store and getting handed a gun to examine (not even the minimal background check that you have to get if you want to buy the gun). The store has absolutely no way to control how responsible the people coming into the store are. Luckily, this guy only hurt himself.
Thank God it didn’t go off while he was pointing it at the other customers or the store clerk.
And (see rule one), again before they handed it over.
They shouldn’t have loaded guns lying around and picked up by people, and neither should you.
The fact that be was a cop and “should” have known better is irrelevant. A gun store does not sell to only experienced shooters and responsible owners. A gun store’s customers are often people who have never owned or even fired a gun and are there to decide which one to buy and maybe sign up for a class. A brand new, non-gunowner could not be blamed for not knowing the rules of firearm safety. Therefore, the store and its employees have the responsibility and legal obligation to ensure their customers are safe and handling safe weapons. The store failed to meet this obligation through gross negligence on their part. The general public has a right to trust that they are not going to be handed a loaded gun across a sales counter. Pulling the trigger of a pistol is common when looking at a gun to purchase, so all of the “his finger was on the trigger” comments are ridiculous. It should be expected that a customer is going to squeeze the trigger to get a feel for the gun.
This case should be looked at as happening to a common person off the street, not someone who should have been an expert. The customer’s experience should not effect the liability of the store. It is only the cop’s fault because he “should have known better”. But obviously he didn’t.
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe that “this particular guy should have been expert enough to notice our gross negligence and prevent the horrible accident that we caused” is a valid legal tort defense.