Official Spoiler Thread for Dark Tower VII - ye have been warned, say thankya

Cafe Society
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SPOILERS ABOUND HERE!!!****

You can turn around now…

last chance…

OK! Let the debates, theorizing, and/or pissing and moaning begin!

I’m still going to box my spoilers out of habit.

From my post in the other DTVII thread:

So, Roland has been condemned to repeat his quest over and over again, for the crime of sacrificing everything for the Tower.

OK, I can dig that. The blow is softened a little by the author’s implication that

This is the last time through for Roland - the journey of the last 7 books, the one us Constant Readers were privy to, is the one where he finally got the picture and put his friends, and humanity, before his quest. He is given the horn this last time out, back in the desert, and when he sounds it at the end of this last loop at the foot of the Tower, he will finally be redeemed.

For a lot of reasons, I can handle this ending. There’s more than a little touch of the writer’s cop out, but I can’t blame King on that one. But here’s the first question that came to my mind:

Its all well and good that Roland is condemned to repeat his journey. That’s his punishment. But what about Jake, Eddie and Susannah? Have they been getting dragged into Roland’s world over and over again? Sure, I imagine each time is a little different, and from the end of the book I gather there are plenty of versions of all three characters in many other worlds so maybe he’s pulling new versions each time, but…it just doesn’t seem right.

My next thought is more of a suggestion that would have made more sense to me. YMMV.

Given all the deus ex machina going on in the last two books, I think King should have saved his last “all debts are paid” note to Roland at Delando’s place and instead have been the reason he got the horn back on his last trip through. Suz and Roland would have figured out Delando was trouble soon enough without King’s cryptic note in the bathroom. But - if King was the one responsible for getting Roland his horn, maybe leaving a cryptic note inside it - that would have truly paid King’s debt to Roland. The magnitude of having that horn in his possession so it can be blown when he reaches the Dark Tower, well, it can’t be overstated since apparently Roland will now be able to quit his infernal loop. That’s a gift of deus ex machina magnitude.

Alltogether I’m very satisfied with the ending, although my co-worker said I did turn white as a sheet after I was finished reading it. I think it will be analyzed for years to come and probably fuel a lot of bad fan fiction. :smack: :smiley:

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I wish I could mod my own posts! :smack:

Feel free to use unboxed spoilers in this thread. As Anon. Coward said in the other thread, discussion will be difficult if everyone’s spoiler-boxing their comments.

Consider my boxes in the OP a last ditch effort to keep people from spoiling themselves if they haven’t finished the book but just…couldn’t…stop from clicking this thread. G’wan, get outta here if ya haven’t finished the book yet! :smiley:

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I hate bumping my own thread, but I really really hope that there are some Dopers out there that have finished VII and are ready to dissect and discuss…

Anyone?

Anyone?

Anyone?

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I have not finished it because I do not read Stephen King. DogDad is anticipating being finished with DT VI on Friday and is going to start DTVII right away.
Unfortunately, he’s rather a slow reader and has a question for someone who’s done with the book.
He noticed that some sort of crystal (Crystal #13?) is stashed in the basement of the World Trade Center. With the ever-encroaching “real world” slamming into the DT world, does 9/11 occur anywhere in this series? Does it destroy that crystal thingy?

Inquiring Dogs want to know, evidently.
Sorry i can’t help to your ongoing quest to discuss it with someone who’s read the book, though.

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Hi DogMom,

Well, if your husband really wants to know…
9/11 is implied with a poster on the wall of one of the “transport stations” to Roland’s world from NY - “Visit September 11, 2001! Tickets still available!”

But no part of the book takes place on 9/11 nor does the book address what happens. I think we’re meant to assume that Black 13 is destroyed when the towers fall, but who knows, with King he might work it into a later book, if he continues publishing. My personal opinion is that Black 13 is indestructable, so it might continue to cause problems in our world.

My quest continues… :smiley:

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I finished the book last night, but I’m not sure I have much to say about it. The series was fun to read.

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Huh. That was.

Wow.

Give me some time to compose my thoughts, do ya kennit?

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Just got the book tonight and am bumping the latest Turtledove book (Settling Accounts: Return Engagement) to put this one at the top of my queue. I’ll get back to you as soon as I finish it though. :slight_smile:

I loved the other books in the series…definitely my favorite stuff by King.

-XT

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Ka is a fuckin’ wheel, say true and say thankya.

I’m still in a complete and utter daze.

Huh.

I’m completely satisfied with it, for starters. Call me a screaming fangirl, call me simple – but I’m not in any way disappointed. Sad that the DT (and King, for the most part) is done, but not disappointed. It’s been one fucking hell of a ride with sai Deschain and his ka-tet.

There **were ** a few things I quirked my brow at – the Crimson King being so… well, so easily disposed of, if you will. I liked the device King used to do it, but I was surprised at the simplicity of Patrick drawing him and then just… erasing him.

But who said things have to be complicated all the time? The DT certainly doesn’t lack complexity, so there’s no **flaw ** there… it was just something I was surprised with.

Oy… oh, man. That was rough. And truth be told, I had more than a little feeling for Mordred. Ka is ka, after all, and Modred isn’t to be hated for his any more than Roland.

Susannah and Eddie and Jake reunited in Central Park brought tears to my eyes, especially Susannah’s realization that she and Eddie would have their “firsts” all over again, even at the expense of forgetting.

The top of the Tower… wow. I didn’t see it coming at all. Even though Roland had the awful moment of realization, how many times do we say “If only I could do it again, and do it all right this time?” I agree with the statement CrazyCatLady made in the other thread… Roland will do it right this time, and the ka-tet won’t be broken.

Oh, man, I’m babbling… I’ll come back tomorrow with more linear thoughts and less nonsense.

For now, long days and pleasant nights, sai King, and **oh ** thankya.

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Wow. I just…wow. Um. Gonna go back and reread it again. Get back to this thread on Sunday. Hopefully will be more coherent then, but I should probably pay some attention to the kids; I’ve been at work or reading, not doing much else. :stuck_out_tongue:

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chatelaine, the exit of R. Flagg is one of the parts that has some people howling. Too quick, too early in the book, and just unbefitting such a mythological long term character. It gave me pause, as well.

King really had me going when Mordred captures a billy-bumbler for a late night snack, and he doesn’t make clear its not Oy until the next paragraph or so. I actually said “Oh no…” out loud.

Why didn’t Roland give the same prayer for Eddie that he did for Jake? I know he was under a time crunch, but c’mon, Eddie was a gunslinger too.

Dandelo seemed kinda squeezed in to me, but the idea of having one last deadly foe to confront before reaching the Tower made sense. (They should have guessed that a regular Joe couldn’t have lived that close to the Tower without blowing some mental gaskets.)

What did the Crimson King see in those rooms he did enter before going out on the balcony? His life, or Roland’s? What would he had seen if he had gone to the top of the Tower? He had supposedly only been there 6 months or so; does the fact that Roland heard stories of the C.K. trapped at the top of the Tower for years reference the inconsistancy of time in Roland’s world?

I’m intrigued by the little parts of the description when Roland finally sees the Tower. The “ancient Speaking Ring”, the “cairn of boulders that had once been a small pyramid”, and especially the other roads that lead to the Tower - for some reason I keep wondering if anyone else has approached the Tower from other directions. What are those stories?

Bah. I’m obsessed. It took 24 hours to sink in, and now all I have are questions. I’m so happy I (and King) lived to see this book.

:smiley:

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On the whole, the series is one of the most amazing things I’ve read, and DT VII is a fairly fitting end to it.

I did feel that a lot of things were rushed a bit. But I thought the method (if not the timing) of Walter’s demise was . . . hmm, the word *delightful * seems really really wrong in this context, but there you go.

It bothered me quite a bit that I seemed to grieve over Eddie for longer than Susannah did though. I understand her going on with the quest, but I’d have thought we’d see a couple moments, probably in the Badlands, when she loses it over him a bit. Perversely, I liked that her immediate extreme physical discomfort eclipsed it all briefly.

I really liked Irene Tassenbaum (even though she’s *gasp * - a Republican), and the whole section about the Tet Corporation.

I was gratified that one of Roland’s gods has my daughter’s name, even if I discovered it during a scene which had me sobbing.

I really liked the Blue Heaven section as well (excepting King’s obligatory snot gross-out). It was great to see Ted in action. Also, getting a window on the minds of the people actually working to bring about the end of the universe was interesting.

Two things really bothered me.

The first is trivial - lots of details got confused, which will presumably get fixed in later printings. Is Mordred’s mark on the left or right heel? Are Suze’s legs cut off above or below the knee? Why on earth would you sit *downwind * of a stinky fire of human bones? For some reason, this stuff leapt out at me in this book, and bugged me to no end.

The second is the whole upshot of the story. At least King tells us straight up we should just leave Roland where Patrick last saw him and be satisfied with a bit of mystery. If King hadn’t written further, I wouldn’t have complained, but jeez, how could I not read what was there? At least the Horn of Eld angle retrieves it from utter stupidity. When I first read what was in the top room, I thought it was a moronic cop-out. The idea that we’ve seen the beginning of his redemption helps a bit, but it still doesn’t make much sense.

Come to it, I’d have preferred an actual *reason * for Roland to go to the Tower - some final sacrifice on his part required to cement the victory won at Blue Heaven. The explanation of mere momentum is less than satisfying. Perhaps King’s making some comment on monomania with it all - I’ll ponder it on my next reading.

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Thank you to the world’s most deadliest…
I’ve forwarded your answer to DogDad. Heck, once he’s done with the book, this might be the thread that gets him to subscribe to the SDMB! :smiley:

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Just finished it. Rambling thoughts:

Well, I guessed the last line right. Although I thought it would be Eddie or Jake following the man in black.

Walter’s death so early on was surprising, and in fact most of the character deaths seemed strange this way: Eddie getting shot by a fairly minor character, Jake getting hit by the van. Oy’s death was a short scene as well.

For some reason I really liked the bit with Sheemie yelling “Beam says thankya!” - I’m not sure why.

I thought the ending was great. I would have also liked it had he just left the ending with Roland entering the tower.

All in all it is a great finish to a fantasic series.

Maybe more later if I think of anything.

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The world’s most deadliest…, I had the same questions about the Crimson King. I was surprised his character wasn’t fleshed out more. He seemed to be almost a quickly-drawn figure, present only to be a roadblock in Roland’s quest.

I also agree that Dandelo seemed to be squeezed in. However, one of my favorite lines in the book happened during that sequence…

"Here comes the deux ex machina! :slight_smile: "

That single line kinda illustrated why I love King so much.

AerynSun, I loved Irene Tassenbaum, and this is coming from a pinko superliberal! That girl was a gunslinger in her own right.

The gross-out in Blue Heaven had me dry heaving well into the next morning. Thanks, Steve-O. :mad: :smiley:

Even though it suprised me, I liked that Susannah chose **not ** to go on to the Tower. Roland’s desperate, last ditch effort to make her stay made me cry a little… it drove home his emotional capacity more than anything else to me, even the deaths of Eddie and Jake.

Damn, I’m so tempted to go buy DT I-III from Amazon and start the series all over again.

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I was avoiding spoiler threads until i finished…

Im still a bit emotional.
great ending to a great series. :slight_smile:

gotta love that brave little oy…

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I finished it Thursday night and Ardred and I discussed it for a few hours.

I thought the ending was perfect. I don’t think Eddie, Jake and Susannah get dragged through every time. I get the feeling it’s new people he has to sacrifice each time, (but each has his counterpart in Alain, Cuthbert, etc), adding to his hellish experience. At least he doesn’t have to relive Susan dying, again.

Some things did bother me that I’m shocked weren’t picked up by a proofreader… especially when Callahan drops the turtle which takes it “out of this tale forever”, but he then has it in his hand again a minute later when he shoots himself.

I loved the death of Walter/Flagg. Flagg is the biggest BadAss™ in the King universe, and Mordred took care of him by making him rip out his own eyes.

The Crimson King’s death was kind of anticlimactic, but simple is good. Was anyone else reminded of the big Koopa at the end of one of the levels of Super Mario? He throws one Sneetch and then jumps up and down, shaking his fists. Two Sneetches, same thing. Made me giggle, imagining Roland jumping off of his head.

When we started reading, Ardred said “I bet he’s going to have to redo this quest again” and I said “yeah, wouldn’t it be cool if the last line of the book was ‘The man in black fled across the desert and the Gunslinger followed’”. Well, lookee there.

I teared up a little at Eddie’s death, a little more at Jake’s, but then when Oy didn’t go with Susannah back to New York I cried like a baby. “Olan”. I was upset, to say the least. I knew Oy was going to die on a tree limb. In one of the previous books, that scene is described… but I can’t remember which one.

The illustrations were… interesting. Some of them were amazing. The one of Jake with the 'Rizas was bizarre, though. Didn’t they all get boots and jeans and stuff in Calla Bryn Sturgis? Why was he wearing moccasins, then?

Anyway, I could talk about this book forever…

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Dude, YES. One of my first thoughts was “Roland should just eat a flower and shoot seeds at him.”

Hee!

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I didn’t even think about the flowers everywhere! Power up, Roland, power up!

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Bahah. If only he had Yoshi to eat those damn sneetches.

About the illustrations – I loved them, but there were some inaccuracies/inconsistencies. The pictures of Susannah varied greatly from Song of Susannah to The Dark Tower. I didn’t notice what you pointed out about Jake with the Rizas, but I’m definitely going to have a closer look.

Walter’s death – What got me more than the eyes was the tongue. Mordred made him bend over to he could tear his tongue out. Appropriate for the ever-sarcastic Walter, I think.