I just hope when that movie about her comes out, they change the title from Factory Girl to Andy Warhol Meets Debutante.
Firstly, can’t you see that, when you effectively roll your eyes at someone, the fact that you are allegedly making a broader statement about “kids these days” doesn’t make your eye-rolling any less rude or offensive to that person? When you effectively say to someone “You don’t know X, and not knowing X is a sign of cultural illiteracy,” you are insulting that person. Now, it may be that there are times when such insults are warranted or intentional. But to do this, and then flutter your eyelashes in amazement that anyone would take offence, is just disingenuous.
Why not just tell him who Edie Sedgwick was, rather than imply that ignorance of this particular piece of minutia implies something larger about his overall ignorance, or general cultural illiteracy? The problem with American history—hell, with all history—is that there is just so much of it that no-one can know everything. We all have to make choices about where to focus our energies and attentions and interests, and the fact that someone’s choices mean that he remains ignorant of a talent-limited drug-addled celebrity is not some marker of the decline of the republic. Personally, i find the whole Warhol circle rather fascinating, but i wouldn’t be at all surprised (or especially concerned) if a poll revealed that 90% of Americans had no idea who Sedgwick was.
One could argue that baseball is (and has been) just as culturally relevant as anything that Edie Sedgwick ever did, but i don’t see RickJay rolling his eyes when someone doesn’t know who Jim Bouton is.
RickJay, “Who the hell is Edie Sedgwick?” is at the least an awfully aggressive (if not uncivil) way of asking the question, and it takes no more imagination to read into it a subtext of “the subject that interests you is unworthy of my attention” than is required to interpret “…this board is just too depressing” as “you ignorant troglodyte.” Not that either of the negative interpretations are necessarily incorrect, but it makes it hard to see anyone as more sinned against than sinning. Whether, as a Canadian under 40 (my assumption), you’re entitled to some slack over lacking this particular molecule of pop culture (I seriously doubt that Edie ever achieved, in life anyhow, a significant fraction of the global name recognition that P.H. enjoys: in 1971, Andy Warhol probably was not as well known), but that’s a side issue.
Besides, there are compensations. Next time you want a break from lissener, all you have to do is start a thread titled “I don’t know or care who Victoria May Budinger is,” and he’ll be bedridden for days. Either that or he’ll have to admit that this kind of disappointment really isn’t that depressing after all.
What’s really too depressing about this board is how little it takes to create acrimony between reasonably intelligent adults who both openly recognize the trivial nature of the topic.
Actually, that’s true too.
In a world of Google and Wikipedia, where finding out about Edie Sedgwick is simply a matter of typing her name into a search engine, it does smack of dismissal or hostility to word your question like that in the middle of a discussion.
Why the hell should I know who Edie Sedgwick is? She contributed nothing of lasting value as far as I can tell. Am I culturally illiterate if I can’t reel off every two-bit celebrity that Warhol gave fifteen minutes of fame to? Who will remember Hilton in 2046 except those who lived through it?
and not even all of us who did. I agree. and disagree that she fits any description of “significant” that I would use.
Ha I feel the same about dozens of other so called tv/movie celebrities, I dont know who they are, so shame on me. BUt I did know who Ms. Sedgwick was because I read an article about her in Rolling Stone years ago. Her story just stuck with me is all.
No one’s saying you or anyone should know who Edie Sedgwick is. I just happened to mention that I was looking forward to a movie about Edie Sedgwick, played by Sienna Miller. RickJay came back with “Who the hell is Edie Sedgwick?” On a smaller scale, it’s as if someone had said a few years ago “I can’t wait to see Philip Seymour Hoffman play Truman Capote” as an offhand remark, and someone else say “Who the hell is Truman Capote?”
I apologise for not saying “I can’t wait to see her play Edie Sedgwick, who was an American socialite, debutante and heiress who starred in many of Andy Warhol’s short films in the 1960s, and who died in 1971 at age 28, because it should be an interesting take on a cultural time and place that hasn’t been delved into very deeply.” or something like that. Consider it said.
What a pathetic Pit.
If knowing who some second-rate do-nothing autocelebrity dumbass was is what passes for cultural literacy these days, shouldn’t the lack of such literacy be praised, not lamented?
Daniel
On the other hand the exchange could have gone something like this:
But that wouldn’t have allowed lissener to get his intellectual rocks off.
Now we’re comparing Edie Sedgwick to Truman Capote?
Sorry, friend, but this pit isn’t about you.
No-one, least of all the OP, expressed any opinion either way on whether you should be interested in Edie Sedgwick or not. Nor did he criticise you for failing to provide the information. His ire was aimed specifically at someone who strongly implied—and has since explicitly stated—that not knowing about Edie Sedgwick is a sign of cultural illiteracy.
I know who Kyra Sedgwick is.
And I know who Edie Falco is. So, really, we’re good.
Yes, she’s that chick who should be the one to play Edie Sedgwick. Identical last names would be marketing gold too, no?
Sorry, it’s against my policy to answer “Who the hell are…” questions.
Jerk.
Well, pardon us, princess.
Whatever. “The hell” could indicate any number of emotions or feelings or attitudes. If you choose to believe it’s always negative, well, whatever.
A “Who is…” question is perfectly legitimate and I’ll answer cheerfully. A “Who the hell is…” question is a “Fuck you, I don’t know and I don’t care anyway” question that doesn’t need to be answered. It makes the person asking it look like a real dick.
lissener’s response was perfectly legitimate, as was his explaination in this thread. People are using this as a bash-lissener thread for no reason at all.
Nonsense. It’s one more instance of lissener being an intellectual dick. He has an astonishing amount of knowledge about film that I couldn’t match if I studied for 100 years, yet he chooses to either impart it in a snide, condescending manner or to sneer at those who don’t match his knowledge.
There’s such a thing as an honest question, you know. Why not an honest answer?
Yes, but honest questions are not phrased that way, in my experience. As I said, if you ask rudely, you get answered rudely.
Surely Dopers get the difference between “Who is she?” and “Who the hell is she?”