Oh, fuck off, Boris Johnson.

[Morgyn]

@VinylTurnip

At the time of this writing, he doesn’t have one.

Good one. <appreciative chuckle>

Think he’ll be back to build one, or is this a one-shot from a one-trick?

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@OttoDaFe

I take it you mean like this?

Boris Johnson, for all his many flaws, is no Adam Sutler.

[Dead_Cat]

@Fuji

To which “majority” would you be referring? Certainly not the electorates of Northern Ireland and Scotland. Surely you’ve heard of Northern Ireland and Scotland - you know, two of the four constituent polities of the United Kingdom?

I noticed that within your lengthy diatribe, there was only one passing reference to Ireland, specifically its finances. No mention at all of that whole pesky border thingy. In fact, it’s curious that your vaunted esteem for the virtues of democracy doesn’t seem to extend to honoring the results of two earlier (and actually binding, not advisory) referenda which created the Good Friday Agreement.

So… a 2nd Brexit referendum is bad because “Democracy 2016!”, but Brexit is good because “Fuck Democracy 1998!”?

I don’t think many in England really give a fuck about Scotland and Ireland. In fact one could conclude that the Brexit problem would be best solved by a united Ireland, similar to how the 2014 Scottish independence referendum showed that Scotland needs England more than vice versa.

[glee]

@Webfoot75

We were inveigled into what is now the EU by outright lies, about national sovreignty, by two conservative PMs in the 70’s. We were given a referendum, which is designed as a single issue non party political vote, on the matter. We voted Leave by a reasonable majority (you can bet it would have been claimed as a great victory if it had gone the other way). We had two Geneneral Elections in which both major parties campaigned to honour the result of the Referendum. 7 out of 9 areas of the U.K. voted leave, nearly 2/3 of constituencies (80% conservative, 70% labour voted leave) and in the EU elections the Brexit Party pretty much wiped the board. What part of “Democracy- the will of the people” do you not understand? The very few people on this thread who have tried to present a reasoned debate have simply been “shouted down” vilified and sworn at, typical of comedy programmes on the BBC actually. The opponents of Brexit on this thread are just that - foul-mouthed comedians, proponents of exactly the sort of mob abuse violence we’ve come to expect. Those of us who genuinely believe in the power of a secret vote and not mob rule on the streets will wait our turn and hope that also is not stolen from us by the religious blindness of the remainders.

We were inveigled into voting to leave the EU by outright lies; about ‘£350 million a week to the NHS’ and stopping ‘70 million Turks coming here’, repeatedly claimed by Boris Johnson.

We were given a referendum, which was appallingly designed as a single issue - instead of offering options (Norway option? Switzerland option? Canada option? Turkish option? Hong Kong option?.)

We voted Leave by a tiny majority.

Since then, it has become clear the Leavers have literally no idea how to cope with the Irish border question, high trade tariffs under WHO rules, massive delays at borders with the EU, delays of years trying to negotiate new trade deals and loss of co-operation with European projects.

The very few people on this thread who have tried to support Brexit have no political or economic arguments to support it.

It is clear the minority Government is now being run by Dominic “take back control” Cummings and Johnson is just a figurehead.

[Gary_Kumquat]

@Dead_Cat

the 2014 Scottish independence referendum showed that Scotland needs England more than vice versa.

It really is annoying when someone decides to chuck in a complete fallacy as a throw away comment on a different topic. It means people either have to leave a blatant lie as a non-challenged statement, or kick off what usually becomes a lengthy sidetrack to the annoyance of people wanting to discuss the original issue.

[kaylasdad99]

It’s not like there’s that much to discuss. Unity among peoples is fundamentally a GOOD THING, and any time it is achieved, any action to reverse it is to be viewed with suspicion as likely to be a BAD THING. Brexit not only should never have passed, the option of passing it should never have been presented to the people of the UK.

I have spoken. Let us dispense with further buttwhistle regarding the matter.

[Dead_Cat]

@Gary_Kumquat

It really is annoying when someone decides to chuck in a complete fallacy as a throw away comment on a different topic. It means people either have to leave a blatant lie as a non-challenged statement, or kick off what usually becomes a lengthy sidetrack to the annoyance of people wanting to discuss the original issue.

Perhaps you could just provide a link or two that demonstrates Scotland contributes more to the UK than it benefits from it, and we’ll leave it at that - I’ll open a new thread to discuss it if I remain unconvinced. Or we could discuss it here, since the original issue of “fuck off Boris Johnson” has probably been covered well enough in the last couple of pages, and everywhere else on the internet.

[ElvisL1ves]

@Dead_Cat

In fact one could conclude that the Brexit problem would be best solved by a united Ireland, similar to how the 2014 Scottish independence referendum showed that Scotland needs England more than vice versa.

That would remove a hard land border in Ireland, but *add *one between England and an independent Scotland (which would seem inevitable if this Brexit madness goes to completion). Is that any better?

[Dead_Cat]

No, sorry - that’s not what I meant. I was thinking more along the lines of Eire needs NI more than GB does. So in an ideal world you have the island of Ireland as one country, and the island of Great Britain as one country, with (if desired) a hard border between them. But that ignores centuries of history and resentment on both sides.

[ElvisL1ves]

OK, I was envisioning an independent NI to go along with an independent Scotland, both of them in the EU along with Eire and all of them being cool with each other. New customs posts at the Irish ports and at Hadrian’s Wall, though. No idea if that’s realistic, but who knows what is?

[Gary_Kumquat]

@Dead_Cat

Perhaps you could just provide a link or two that demonstrates Scotland contributes more to the UK than it benefits from it, and we’ll leave it at that

Splendid. Start with a non sequitur fallacy, then switch to a move the goalposts fallacy. You’re a special one, aren’t you? How about we go with your original claim that “the 2014 Scottish independence referendum showed that Scotland needs England more than vice versa” and then have a look at some of the arguments made by Westminster politicians in the buildup to the referendum:

Boris Johnson*

We are told that if Scotland votes to cut its ties with England, that will be a disaster on a par with the loss of the American colonies in 1776; but it is far worse than that.

David Cameron**

It would be the end of a country that launched the Enlightenment, that abolished slavery, that drove the industrial revolution, that defeated fascism. the end of a country that people around the world respect and admire the end of a country that all of us call home.

And we built this home together.

It’s only become Great Britain because of the greatness of Scotland

It takes a rare mind to look at pleading like the above from the Better Together movement, along with some of the claims that have since proven to be absolute fiction (Scotland had to stay in the UK or it would drop out of the EU, etc) and then conclude that by voting to stay in the union the Scots showed they need the English more than vice versa. All the referendum proved was that a slim majority were happier with the status quo of the UK then going it alone. It’s funny to think that the lunacy of brexit has now pushed the majority of Scots to think it’s time to move on***.

Now, if you really do want to carry this on as a topic, how about you start a thread on it rather than try to continue a hijack?

*Scottish independence: Decapitate Britain, and we kill off the greatest political union ever
**Scottish independence: Full text of David Cameron's 'no going back' speech | The Independent | The Independent
***A majority of Scots now support independence? Well, duh! | Vonny Leclerc | The Guardian

[Dead_Cat]

As you wish; please see here if you would like to continue this tangent: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=881419

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Webfoot75

We were inveigled into what is now the EU by outright lies, about national sovreignty, by two conservative PMs in the 70’s. We were given a referendum, which is designed as a single issue non party political vote, on the matter.

Thanks for your input, One-and-done poster.

I note that you have now lost your majority, and will likely be headed for an election. This is what happens in a democracy - elections. Say goodbye to Boris.

[Dead_Cat]

Apparently the major polls are suggesting an 8 percentage point vote swing to the Tories if an election is held now (I understand this comes with some assumptions about a Tory/Brexit Pary ‘non-aggression pact’ in key seats) which could translate into an outright Tory majority. Which is presumably why Boris is comfortable with the current posturing. But of course, the polls have often been wrong before, and the situation is incredibly volatile. My personal belief is that any election held before Brexit is resolved will result in much the same stalemate we have now.

[Toxgoddess]

It appears that Boris has indeed been told to fuck off as Parliament asserts itself.

[DCnDC]

So MP Philip Lee just stood up, crossed the room, and sat down with the Lib Dems.

Can someone please explain to this American what this means?

[Inner_Stickler]

He left the tory party and joined the lib dems which took away Johnson’s majority in the house of commons.

[VinylTurnip]

Man. Our Congress is fucking boring.

[Zakalwe]

@VinylTurnip

Man. Our Congress is fucking boring.

No shit! One thing you’ve got to hand it to the UK on, when they want drama, they bring the drama!

[Steve_MB]

@VinylTurnip

Man. Our Congress is fucking boring.

On the other hand, BoJo the Clown doesn’t seem to generate anywhere near Trumpian levels of explosive Twitterrhea.