FWIW I was aware of the moveone connection and Michael Moore’s idiocies. I’m just disgusted as hell that Bush/Cheney reduced themselves to their level. To put in bluntly, it ain’t exactly inspiring when two of the most powerful men on earth can’t deal with pigs except by flopping themselves right down in the muck with them.
And I’m not one bit happy with Al Gore either, FTR. No matter the shenanigans in the last election, it wouldn’t have been an issue if he hadn’t run a spectacularly inept race. He should just shut the hell up and go away already.
I’m used to having to hold my nose to vote but this election might require full hazmat gear.
No, I stand by my assertion that, viewed from an advertising and marketing standpoint, the underlying message attempt is the hitler association. Whether there’s another over-arching message that the more subtle one is covered by is, well not irrelevant, but a distraction.
I wonder if the Bush campaign got permission from MoveOn.org and the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences before using their copyrighted footage.
OK, JC, I’ll offer some modicum of respect for your area of expertise in advertising and marketing, but if your assertion represents their intent, then it is a miserable flop, because even subtly that’s not at all what comes across for me (in fact, if anything, it is the opposite).
Of course there are some people who were affected just the way you say (the OP’er, for instance). Maybe it has something to do with demographic factors/IQ/political affiliation/religion or whatever that needs to be factored in.
I suppose we could do a poll… see which way (or what other ways) people were affected… if we cared.
I have a hard time understanding how anyone could be so monumentally stupid or dishonest as to continue to pretend that MoveOn.org was in some way devilishly promoting the idea that Bush is Hitler. They had an open contest for people to submit entries that people would then vote on. They uploaded what they got in and set people voting. It’s not even clear that they viewed all the ads for content. The Hitler ads got extremely low votes. When the MoveOn people were told about the ads content via Republican talking point press release, they removed them from the contest citing their own rules about qualifying entries. End of story.
JC is completely right: the clips are set up in such a way and the ad named in such a way that the Hitler reference is at the very least a double entendre. It’s simultaneously trying to attack Democrats for Hitler references while at the same time trying to do the exact same thing through very well understood methods of association. Read EITHER way, the attack is dishonest attempt to associate things that don’t fairly compare with each other (even Kerry to Gore isn’t fair: Kerry didn’t make a brownshirts remark). And lord knows that people busy trying to compare Moore’s anti-Bush pollemic to the works of Nazi propagandists should probably keep their damn fool mouths shut for a few secs after bitching about Gore’s brownshirts vile.
I would guess that the footage of Moore at the Academy Awards would by copyrighted by whichever entity took that shot. I think once something is shown as a news event, its wide open.
On the other hand, the question about the submissions to MoveOn that were refused, thats kinda interesting. MoveOn wouldn’t have the copyright to give, even if they were so inclined. If anyone was contacted to obtain the rights, it was most likely the original producers of the ads. Who are, we are clearly given to understand, vehemently and venomously anti-Bush.
Conspiracy: the ads were produced by pro-Bush gnomes to begin with, and slipped to MoveOn.orgs contest with the sole intent of embarrassing them. I remember the contest, voted on it. Spent most of my reviewing time going by which ads had gotten the most views, so I never actually saw the two “Hitler” ads until the news broke. Because they were at the very, very bottom of the heap, viewer wise.
Of course, it is also possible that the ads producers, however anti-Bush, are conveniently pro-solvency.
I guess because I knew ahead of time what the Hitler allusions were about (showing zealot Democrat quotes and ads), that it was pretty clear to me. At least the first showing of the MoveOn.org ad had “MoveOn.org” on the screen, so you know where it originally came from. The next images (with Hitler) from MoveOn.org didn’t have any credits on them. That could be confusing.
I thought the ad was clumsy. I don’t think that the other portions of it (showing Gore and Dean frothing at the mouth) were out of line—they said what they said and they are major political figures. But the Hitler/MoveOn stuff could get confusing.
Seems to me that this ad doesn’t compare Kerry to Hitler in much the same way that the Bush administration hasn’t said that Saddam was involved in 9/11. It doesn’t, but it juxtaposes the images in such a way as to create a connection in the mind of anyone not paying close attention. Thumbs down from me.
Count me in as thinking that a Kerry/Hitler association was definitely intended: “It works on two levels, Boss! The majority of the electorate will see Kerry and Hitler and think 'Kerry = Hitler.” The ones who aren’t complete morons will think ‘Kerry = MoveOn.org’ – we can’t lose!"
What I found interesting was that last snippet of Kerry: “Today, Bush will lay off your camel, tax your shovel, kick your ass and tell you there is no promised land.” This is actually from a poster that circulated during Nixon’s first term, when George McGovern was running for president (there are those who claim it’s older, and has something to do with Truman and Roosevelt, but I doubt it):
I’m surprised that Kerry trotted out that old chestnut, but I’m really surprised that Bush included a pretty funny joke as an example of “Wild-eyed Democrats.”
I’m on the left, and I actually thought the ad was rather effective. Offensive, yes, but up until the “still image of Dubya while calming music plays” bit at the end, which was a ridiculously obvious attempt to draw a contrast between the sides without actually having to think of a way in which Bush was any different, the ad was clever.
It certainly wasn’t an attempt to compare the Dems and the Nazis. It certainly was a cheesy attempt to paint the mainstream Democrats (and Michael Moore) as left-wing fruitcakes.
MsRobyn I have admired you for a long time, and I unless I am mistaken, you are married to AirmanDoors who is also a cool guy and his advice recently helped me through my fear of flying.
However, considering your husband’s flurry of posts of late, I am totally in shock that he too will not be voting for Dubya this time around…
I will be checking the Weather Channel to ensure it really is 31 degrees Farhrenheit in Hades tonight.
While I don’t believe Bush can be compared to Hitler, I strikingly noticed everytime I watched this ad that when the footage of Hitler changes to Bush, their hands are in nearly the exact same position. Doesn’t seem to be a bright move by whoever put that ad together.
Moore was denied permission to include his own speech on the DVD of Bowling for Columbine so I don’t think you’re right that it’s freely usable outside of a news context. AMPAS owns the copyright and if Bushco didn’t get permission then I hope AMPAS sues the hell out of them.
Ownership of the MoveOn ad would depend on the terms of the contest under which it was created. I would be surprised if the contest rules allowed for copyright to remain with the creator.
Funny, isn’t it? I have been persuaded that Bush is going the wrong way overall, but that doesn’t mean that I’ve gone over to the dark side. It just means that I have a mind and the integrity to change it.
