And? If I say that they have no clue about Islam when they think God allowes suich actions, I say they have no clue about Islam.
But you claim that I should fly overthere and take them out personally because they claim to be Muslim, or what?
God is strong enough to defend Himself.
I have nothing to do with what humans make of the religion He gave us. I have also nothing to see with what those who do not follow the religion make of it because they like to use empty rethoric regarding Islam, every time someone claiming to be Muslim commits a crime.
No thank you. You should search someone else to fall in your empty blame game trap and to play your hypocritical game.
As for what I in reality did (and which I’m sure is endlessly more then anyone of the hypocrits I see posting in this thread will ever even imagine that can be done, let alone doing it themselves) about the whole taking-hostage-of -Islam trend that is so popular among lunatics these days: That is none of your business and none of your interest either.
No, Liberal is admirably trying not to hijack this thread.
To the subject at hand (hint, hint), it is incredible that these terrorists would sink to such a low. What the hell do they think they’ll accomplish? Holding schoolchildren hostage. I just don’t understand, I really don’t.
This act of terrorism stands condemned all by itself. It’s a barbaric action that will probably accomplish nothing except the deaths of everyone inside that school—parents, children, and hostage-takers.
Sure, i would expect any muslim who hears about this and is a reasonable human being and who chooses to comment to condemn the act. But for you to march in and issue a pre-emptive edict that essentially connects this to all Muslims and makes them responsible for it is beneath contempt.
And you can shove Fred Phelps up yous ass. Sure, it’s reassuring to hear Christians criticize him, but i never take his actions or his followers as evidence that Christians as a whole need to “get their house in order.”
Poly, i understand your point of view and i think that the principles you’re espousing are entirely reasonable, but i think you’re giving Liberal far more credit than his words actually deserve in this case.
Because this deed was not done in the name of your faith.
“And make not Allah’s name an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for Allah is One Who heareth and knoweth all things.” — 2:224
I’m afraid (well, of guilt by semi-association) that I agree with Liberal.
Islam has a very poor reputation these days due to the actions of this tiny minority of rogues. Not everyone is rational and will start to associate Islam with terrorism and that can only have poor reprecussions for Muslims in non-Muslim societies. The Muslim community needs to act (by issuing condemnations etc) in order to protect itself from the negative association.
I’m a cyclist, and here in the UK we’re not popular on the roads. Thus when I’m on the bike I act in a far more polite manner than I normally would so as not to add another example to the drivers list of ‘cyclists I hate’.
I see Aldebarans point, but it’s a practical issue. I’d hate to see more racial tensions (as most Muslims are non-white) where there are already too many.
Still, despite being an atheist, I hope that those evil fuckers find some form of hell and quickly.
a) They’re hypocrites.
b) AFAIK adultery isn’t more prevalent in christian countries than any other faith.
Look, this is a complete derail. I don’t really think that Aldebaran should apologize for their actions- I wanted to put the screws to him for saying “how dare you generalize about ” when all he does is genralize about [y].
Fuck the terrorists, period. if they all converted to Christianity/Hindu/Rastafarianism tomorrow it wouldn’t change a damn thing to me.
Since people by all means continue to try to tear Islam ind its teachings into this political act a little beginners lesson:
In Islam every individual is responsible for his own actions and hence every individual faces the consequences (in the after life) = Others are not responsible fo these actions at all.
So if you want to tear me into this based on the fact that I am Muslim, then the only responsiblility I would ever have is that when i would be at the scene of the crime, I would need to do all I can to try to convince those comitting the crime that they are violating the commands of God.
I’m sorry, but how unimaginable it can be for you to understand this, I feel not compelled to fly overthere, find a niece of mine who is in Russia learning Russian to act as in interpreter (and she is Catholic) and then tell the officials busy to try by all means to solve the situation avoiding little children and others to get killed, that my religion commands me to go overthere and talk with the lunatics inside and try to convince them to repent.
Adulterers? Fucking hell, Mhendo, if Islamic fundamentalists were running all over the world committing adultery, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of me. But if Christian fundamentalists were running all over the world blowing up busses and kidnapping children, your ass would be screaming bloody murder. And don’t pretend otherwise. Aldebaran has been quick to condemn perceived attacks on his conscience, but still not one word of condemnation about attacks on these children. Even you, after saying the act spoke for itself, still spoke out against it.
God, Liberal, now I am trapped. I must confess that in fact I am now inside that school and writing from one of their PC’s while the suicidal lunatics surrounded by little children gard the door of my office to rpevent you to enter.
I do hope you keep this quit because it is not that I am suicidal. I only am here to show them my open support and told so to the Russians so taht they wont shoot me when things get a bit heated.
That quote proves to me that if the terrorists are using Allah’s name in vain (as opposed to simply being separatist terrorists who happen to be Muslims), then they are indeed acting against Islam. What it does not show me is that Aldebaran should be expected to loudly condemn them for our approval. I would have thought it would be the charitable - indeed the Christian - thing to do to assume that he finds the act repugnant, as would all decent men.
If we were to spend our lives disavowing the excuses made by evil men, nothing would be achieved. These acts are evil, and it needs no Muslim scholar to tell us that they have nothing to do with their form of worship.
I agree with our new friend Lord Bubbington-Smythe (hello, by the way :)) that it would quite probably be prudent for Muslims to disavow acts taken in their name, lest they be tarred with the same brush by ignorant people, but this does not explain why an intelligent man such as you, Lib, who plainly knows that most Muslims find holding children hostage repugnant, should feel the need to demand such statements. As I said earlier, this is emotional blackmail against people who have done nothing wrong, and we shouldn’t be surprised if they react badly to it. If you volunteer your condemnation of Phelps whenever you see his name, so much the better, but I see very few people demanding that you do so. Here you have made the very second post to the thread, rather pre-empting any possibility that a Muslim might happen by and chip in of their own volition.
Could there perhaps be a truce over politics and religion until these children are no longer in danger? Could we wait to use their plight as a a way to score a point in an ongoing debate until they’re not about to die?
OK. Now you know what it feels like when you condemn all ‘Us’ers’ as moral cowards and hypocrites whenever any Western government commits an action you don’t like.
Will you stop?
And I agree that whenever I, a reasonably enlightened person, hears about such an evil act being perpetrated, I immediately wonder which crazy Muslim group is doing it now. Nihilistic violence is becoming the face of Islam for too many people. It seems to be the only way they can communicate to the larger world anymore.
I can assure you that all over the world this happens all the time.
I also can assure you that all over the Western world in general, such statements are by and large completely ignored. It does not sell to publish that, it sells to hypocritically act as if it doesn’t happen and in addition to act as if a statement of approval on the matter made by some backyard Imam hase more importance then the Al Azhar.
I often wonder how the Western Media is able to find such lines uttered by idiots I never ever heard off and they sell it as “official stance of Muslims”. 'While such an idiot in fact only speaks for himself and probably doesnt even is aware of it that the tiny little corner of the globe where his voice normally sounds widens miraculously by means of the bigotted Western tamtam.
I can also assure you that the mere fact alone that people seem to find itnormal for Muslims to condemn publicly (and condemn as in: implying an apology) actions that go that blatantly against every commands of our religion makes me vomit because of the open and disgusting selective bigotry such expectation holds all by itself.
Salaam. A
