Aldebaran, where did you get the bizarre notion that a condemnation implies an apology? The apology comes from the people who did the deed. But condemnation comes from all who deplore it.
Firstly, that question was directed at Mojo, and was intended to demonstrate that plenty of people, of all religious strpies, fail to follow the teachings of their religion. Is not adultery, after all, a mortal sin?
No, i don’t in any way equate adultery with terrorism or murder, but Mojo’s question implied that Muslims had a greater tendency towards hypocrisy than Christians. Hell i could have used murder as an example, e.g., “Why does a predominantly Christian nation like the US have so many murders?” I would ask this question not to imply that all murderers are Christians, or that Christians are especially prone to murder, but simply to rebut Mojo’s implication that Islam is alone in having hypocritical “adherents.”
Hey, maybe if you had just come into this thread and simply condemned the terrorists (as you are calling for Aldebaran to do), rather than using it as an excuse to beat up on Islam, then Aldebaran might have had some opportunity to do the same. But no, you had to use the opportunity to take a cheap shot. This might have been partly understandable if the thread had been going for some time with no word from Aldebaran, but you were the first respondent. I think you came here with no desire but to stir shit.
“Even you”? Even me? What the fuck does that mean? Have i somehow previously given some indication that i’m not the sort of person who generally opposes or speaks out against terrorism?
In an earlier post in this thread, Alde and other Muslims where metaphorically charged to “clean up their houses.” That, plus the “loud and universal condemnation should ring forth from every mosque on earth” bit both seem to be calling on him and other Muslims to do far more then merely not refuse to condemn something.
Do I refuse to condemn [the actions of] abortion clinic bombers? Hell no–but at the same time I don’t walk around actively condemning them and I don’t expect the priests at my church to bring it up either. It goes without saying. Likewise, I don’t think peaceful Muslims have a responsibility to make an extraordinary attempt to denounce this, because it’s obviously not a part of the religion has they understand and practice it.
Sorry, I overlooked your
“in order to protect their people”.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Such statements are not made and published with as only goal to please the non Islamic nations and more specific the West.
Actions comitted by people claiming to be Muslims and some even claiming to act “in the name of God” or “in the name of Islam”, are not condemned for the purpose to “protect Muslims” for the bigotry and ignorance of the West.
They are condemned because they are violations of the commands of Islam.
That is not a game, played to “protect Muslims”. That is making statements about the teachings of Islam.
If there is by this a thought about Muslims hearing it, then it is to make the Muslims hearing or reading it that they should focus on the commands of Islam as they are. Not as they are sold to them by people who have as their aim political goals and who fabricate a twisted version of Islam as a tool make their l goals look as if they are in line with Islamic rules and goals.
Salaam. A
Do we even know who the hostage takers are, or what they want? If not then some of you guys should shut the fuck up for a minute. If so, then I should shut the fuck up. 
It might have something to do with a statement issued yesterday by the Islambouli Brigades: “Targeting Russia is the start of a violent and bloody war against those who have dedicated themselves to kill Islam and its people. This war will dissuade the criminals in Russia’s house from killing Muslims.”
I think the big difference however is that the bombng act is done in the name and is justified by the attackers as condoned by their religon (rightly or wrongly). I don’t think anyone is claiming adultery is advocated by their religon (well the mainstream ones at least).
This is by far the most normal and humane and compassionate post in this whole thread so far.
And yes, you are completely right. These hundreds of children and adults can die any moment if overtehre things get even more critical all at once.
I for one don’t see this ending good, with the similar situation in the Moscou theatre in mind. (And my own niece could have been among the hostages there, she was in Moscou and went to that same show only a few days earlier).
(Liberal, I suggest you open an new thread to demand that Muslims all over the globe enter it to serve you at your command with posting a thesis condemning terrorism.)
Salaam. A
Still only says “armed men”. While assuming it’s Chechen terrorists is a good guess, this OP has flown off the rails, perhaps we should make sure it’s not Timmy McVeigh before we really get into it.
Periods, commas, what’s the difference? 
He’s just being typical Aldebaran. Set fire to any of his arguments and it will go up in smoke in two minutes. 
Yeah, but the claims of some nut-job terrorists should not be seen as reflecting broader reality in any way. And the people who the nut-jobs claim to represent should not be tarnished by the such claims.
The KKK claims to represent true American values. This doesn’t mean that the presence of the KKK is an excuse to call all Americans to task, or to suggest that they “get their house in order.”
What a pointless thread.
Lib - when you have wiped the froth from your mouth and the knee from your chin, maybe you can give us the address where we should post our condemnation of the events in Russia to.
Is it not a given that most HUMANS on the planet would condem this - why must Alde be singled out.
The link in the OP doesnt mention any religon - Islam or otherwise. YOU seem to be developing a rather unpleasant outlook on life.
sin
A breaking bulletin from The Economist:
Here’s a map of the region.
From August 24, 2004, a little background from their side:
While everything probably points to this being a Chechan act, there is at least some possibility that these might not be Chechans holding the kids hostage. Ingushetians, from the same “district” as Chechnya, were kicked out of Ossetia, which is where the school under seige is located. Russia chose not to get involved in that conflict because of their pre-existing Chechan problem.
I think it probably is Chechans responsible but there’s others there with an axe to grind as well.
Here’s the link to the Georgian news story I’ve just posted. The “breaking news” column on the right of the page is very useful for providing context.
I’m surprised that no one’s sure exactly how many hostages there are: CNN reports “at least 100 people,” BBC says “around 150,” and Le Monde* says “at least 200.” I guess CNN is technically the most accurate, but a discrepancy of possibly hundreds of people seems a bit much. The body of the Le Monde story quotes an even higher number:
(Cliff’s Notes translation*: local police think that 200-400 people are in the hands of the commandos, revised from an earlier estimate of 120-150.)
Shouldn’t the news sources be able to narrow down how many people are in the school to better than 100-400? :dubious: Is there something to situations like this that I’m just not aware of/don’t understand?
*Unless my French skills are rustier than I think, which is entirely possible. 
Aldebaran
Indeed, but this is a practical measure. There is a great deal of bigotry and ignorance in the West towards Muslims. Every terrorist act commited in the name of Islam (and yes, I am aware that it is totally contrary to Islamic teaching) adds to the problem.
Frankly, I am well aware of your obstuse posting style, but you must be foolish to think that Islam needs to act carefully in order for Muslims to live happily. Yes, it’s not fair, but tough shit. The more the mainstream Islam does to distance itself from the assorted nutters working under its banner (yes, falsely) the better. To ignore such thinking would, IMHO, be folly in the current climate.
I’m sure that all reasonable Muslims condemn such actions (as they are indeed just people like everyone else and thus horrified by such things, independent of religiousity), but unfortunately they need to be more vociferous.
As I mentioned with my clumsy cycling analogy, when you’re part of a group that has poor PR with the main of the populace, then it’s pretty silly not to try to do whatever you can to show that only a minority of your group are responsible and that they are just as reviled by the group as they are by those outside of it. Thus, whenever I act in a above-normal manner when out on my bike (eg, saying hello and smiling to all the walkers I pass, stopping when kids/dogs are near etc) I’m doing it for both myslef and the wider cycling community.
Welcome to Straight Dope, Lord Bubbington-Smythe.
That’s an admirable sentiment.
How would you feel if some wanker drove by in a car and screamed that you should “get your house in order” because some guy on a bike cut him off in traffic yesterday?