I find Oingo Boingo good, not my favorite band, I used to have a coworker who loved Oingo Boingo and Danny Elfman in general.
I do agree with what you are saying in general though not pertaining with that particular band. Sometimes one has a great voice, or song writing capabilities, or plays one or more instruments very well, but in the end their song craft is not really good.
And there in lies the problem.
That’s not what most people are looking for, or capable of discerning, so it doesn’t disappoint them. That sounds condescending, but IMO that’s the bottom-line answer to your question. They don’t value what you seem to because they don’t even recognize it.
You may as well ask why subsequent writers didn’t build on Shakespeare’s genius, or why the majority of today’s domestic architecture is totally mundane, in spite of occasional spurts of genius. Most people aren’t looking for innovation; they’re looking for the familiar, the easy. Popular music, by definition, appeals to the masses, the lowest common denominator. The truly innovative will appeal to a very small audience; the average person will tire of it, and go back to the tried and true.
I listened to half a dozen songs on youtube and I liked what I heard. As a matter of fact, I already knew Weird Science.
I must say that I expected something a bit more… bizarre perhaps but it was good. It sort of reminded me of Talking Heads. *[Just Another Day] * and Perfect System are the ones that interested me the most musically speaking (a neat unusual rhythmic pattern in the latter IIRC).
This helps me understand. Thanks. Now I’m curious why people enjoy those four chords so much that I referenced before: Am F C G, or various iterations of vi, IV, I, V.
My theory is that in relation to the tonic, vi brings to mind sadness and despair, IV after it evokes hope, I is of course happiness and stability, and V is determination to face all of life’s troubles (which again arrive at vi).
Wikipedia adds:
“It can also be used in the form vi–IV–I–V, which was dubbed the sensitive female chord progression by Boston Globe Columnist Marc Hirsh. In C major this would be Am–F–C–G (Am–F–C–G/B voicing is very common in modern pop music). Hirsh first noticed the chord progression in the song “One of Us” by Joan Osborne.”
The vi–IV–I–V progression has been associated with the heroic in many popular Hollywood movies and movie trailers, especially in films released since 2000.[5]
Axis of Awesome’s Four Chords discusses them as I, V, vi, IV. Ex: Chorus of Can You Feel The Love Tonight, I’m Yours by Jason Mraz, innumerable others.
Do you guys think my theory has any merit?
If I extrapolate to scales, the Lydian scale (C,D,E,F#,G,A,B,C for instance) evokes whimsy because of the sharp fourth (F#) as opposed to the normal fourth (F). This could be why OB uses it and the tritone relation so much…see the opening bass line to Nasty Habits.
Or even further, the Mixolydian scale (ex. C,D,E,F,G,A,Bb,C) evokes, to me a kind of tightness with that Bb (flat seventh). As in, the major scale is going just fine until the G,A,Bb, and you get a flash of minor (Gm). So to me that would indicate a longer tougher journey…whereas a normal Ionian scale is happy all the time, the Mixolydian brings to mind trials and a hard life–and thus the eventual major chord seems more satisfying!
Do my extrapolations make sense to anyone else? If they do make sense, then maybe people composed music based on perceived connections like mine between chords or between scales?
I love Oingo Boingo, and agree with all of the critical gushing in the thread. My only difficulty with them, and it may be why others don’t get hooked by them, is that their music is so fast-paced and complexity-saturated that I quickly get listening fatigue from them. Sort of like listening to bebop jazz or speed metal. There’s never any place to take a musical breather.
But “pop music” can mean “music that’s popular” or it can refer to a specific style, or set of styles, of music. (“Classical music” similarly has multiple meanings.) And within that set of styles there is room for innovation and unconventionality and complexity.
And it is possible for music to involve these things and still remain popular—consider The Beatles, mentioned upthread. It seems to me, considering examples like theirs, that the way to do so is to start out by doing things that appeal to the masses and hope that, as you evolve and become more experimental and innovative, your public will go along for the ride.
Oingo Boingo has always been one of my favorite bands (as my name implies). I could see someone who did not grow up in the era of 80’s and early 90’s music not “getting” a lot of their earlier stuff - the same way a lot of people can’t get Devo or The Aquabats.
I was lucky enough to see them twice live and both times the shows had an amazing energy and they were one of those bands that sounded better live than recorded.
In regards to his musical scores, I love them but would agree a large amount of them seem redundant - however that is sort of ring fences by Tim Burton and his rut in directorial and visual style. You will find when you branch outside of his work with Burton his music becomes more varied (Sommersby, Good Will Hunting, Milk, etc)
Pop music does have certain cycles but as people have said here it’s easy to listen to and makes money. A lot of people aren’t looking for something complex, they want something that is comfortable and what they have always listened to.
Also, if you are interested there is an Oingo Boingo Facebook group I belong to (Boingo Circus) that people spend a lot of time talking about him and the band. They get a little fanatical but you may find it interesting.
Sure, but I wonder to what extent non-musicians realize that so many songs use the same chord progressions. I’m sure most of them are not aware of it. Heck, I’ve played guitar and cello for years and sometimes I need the sheet music to notice it. A boring chord progression can be “hidden” to a certain extent (if it’s in an unusual key for instance).
But I think that’s the point - not everyone looks to music to be challenged. They listen to the radio, like what they hear, and seek out more of the same. Look at a lot of classic rock songs even, they all have similar chords and power riffs. True there are some deviations, but who is more popular AC/DC or Rush? Ramones or Husker Du?
Yes, that was my point, too.
I prefer complex music but if most people don’t, so what? If pressed, I’ll state my opinion clearly but I don’t consider it my mission to change other people’s tastes. As a matter of fact, it’s tiring, pretty much useless and a bit condescending.
To each his own.
I believe there’s a practical aspect of this question. As I understand it, Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo already existing before Elfman joined / took over. He came into the group with a formal musical education, and, since they were an avante garde cabaret act more than a pop band, they embraced his style and ran with it.
I don’t think there’s a ton of acts that have that combination of serious training AND an environment where experimentalism is really encouraged. And, to top it off, I think there’s evidence enough that Elfman really is a gifted, talented songwriter.
Yep. I was going to mention if you’re a real fan you knew them originally as the Mystic Knights of the OB. Their live Halloween show was a huge tradition.
It is an interesting thing. I have been lucky enough to make my living as a musician for the bulk of my adult life, and I recognize Oingo Boingo as a musician’s band. I would count myself a fan.
I don’t, however, see their music as complex as such; at least not according to the standard of, let’s say, King Crimson or Frank Zappa.
But I certainly do see them as interesting, with strong musicianship and unusual arrangements, scales, and lyrical subject matter. (This is not necessarily always evident; they have plenty of more or less conventional tunes as well.)
Here is my suggested Oingo Boingo playlist:
These are all taken from the first three albums, which I regard as superior to any after that. YMMV.
I would also like to suggest that the Farewell versions of Grey Matter and Little Girls are quite good.
I would also throw in the following:
[ul]
[li]Sweat[/li][li]Gratitude[/li][li]No One Lives Forever[/li][/ul]
Fun fact not only is my name here from an obscure OB track, but my XBox Live name is NoSpillBlood - I have had 4 people in 7 years ID it.