Oingo Boingo (for musicians)

Cafe Society
1

Hi Cafe Society,

Danny Elfman, in my humble opinion, is an absolute musical genius. As a professional musician myself, I admire and appreciate this genius, especially as it relates to the music of his band, Oingo Boingo. In their music, you frequently find chord progressions uncommon in pop music. The band frequently utilizes tritones, minor-five to one progressions, Lydian modes, third-relations (Cm to Abm, or Cm to Ebm, for example).

For all his genius and brilliance, Danny Elfman’s creative use of rhythms and harmonies did not catch on. Sure, they influenced people, and yes, Oingo was successful. But turn on the radio today–his innovations did not catch on. We still hear the same boring configurations of (in the key of C, for instance): C Am F G, or F Am, C, G, or the worst and most ubiquitous: Am, F, C, G. I know the Axis of Awesome addressed this issue with Four Chords.

His chords and harmonies, and scales and rhythms, are unusual, but highly satisfying in my opinion…much more so than the garbage we hear today.

My question is: why didn’t pop culture decide to branch out and try these different musical techniques? As a listener, I find his work more interesting and enjoyable because he seems to understand the true capabilities of harmony.

My other question which follows is simply this: What are the qualities of pop music, besides its ubiquitousness (which breeds familiarity) that keep it so popular? It should have fizzled out by now…it’s so formulaic!

Thanks,

Dave

2

Danny Elfman’s style didn’t catch on partly because it’s a complex style that’s hard to pin down, and hard to do well once you figure out how you define it.

I can write you 3-4 blues songs that would be listen-able (if you like blues) in 24 hours. But there’d be very little innovative about them, and you’d probably forget about them halfway through the next song. To write a blues song that challenges the conventions of the genre and is still listen-able will take quite a bit longer.

And well, pop culture is generally interested in what’s popular, not what’s innovative.

3

Oingo Boingo, I like them a lot, but they weren’t exactly commercial juggernauts. So, that’s part of the answer–sales drive the musical direction.

But I get your question. The more nuanced answer is that it’s hard to do, and such talent is scarce, especially talent that can take that complexity and make it commercially viable. Use an extreme example: the Beatles. They certainly did their share of mining standard chord progressions. But they also created a boatload of innovative and creative constructions, using melody and harmony and chords and tempo and production in amazing ways. And all the while, doing so in an accessible, joyfully commercial way.

So, if I were to ask you, “Why doesn’t everyone else do what the Beatles did?,” the answer would be, “If only they could.” :slight_smile:

4

Well I’ve given them a bit of a listen on Spotify. I’d say that they didn’t catch on as they just weren’t very good. You can use all the unusual/no standard chord progressions you want, but if the tunes aren’t good …

5

Some of the best jazz songs, such as “So What” by Miles Davis, use only two or three chords, while Coltrane’s “Giant Steps” is suffused with chords. Either way can make a great song depending on the performance of the musicians involved.

I remember Oingo Boingo being quite popular back in the 80’s, but that doesn’t entail beaucoup amounts of proceeding musicians adopting their musical devices any more than they would adopt the devices of Frank Zappa or Ornette Coleman. I mainly remember Oingo Boingo for “I Want Candy” and their luncheon on the grass album cover. I’ve never really thought about Oingo Boingo as being musically innovative though, so I’ll have to take another listen to some of their songs out of curiosity.

6

Oingo Boingo is not to everyone’s taste, understood. But if you give a listen to the following songs, you’ll see why I think it’s pretty innovative and enjoyable. Some of these come off as weird, I know. You can find all these songs on youtube.

Mary
Remember My Name
Nasty Habits
Not My Slave
Private Life
Nothing Bad Ever Happens
On The Outside
Stay
We Close Our Eyes
Wild Sex

Maybe the subject matter and macabre nature of his style impacted his popularity (e.g. skeleton imagery, talk about sex, drugs, and prostitution, etc) Also, Danny Elfman’s voice is quite versatile. My favorites are Remember My Name and Mary. When they go past silly (Nasty Habits) and raunchy (Wild Sex) their other songs can be quite touching and beautiful. Thoughts?

7

Okay, yikes, wrong group. I was thinking of Bow Wow Wow. But I believe he’s the same guy who penned the Simpsons and Batman themes, right?

8

Yes. I was going to say, “No, Neil Hefti did ‘Batman’!” but then I looked it up and saw Elfman did do the 1989 Batman. When I think “Batman theme,” I think of “Nananananananananananananananana BATMAN!” :slight_smile:

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I’m not a musician (unless you count five years of clarinet), so forgive me for barging in, but I couldn’t let a thread about Boingo - my absolute favorite band of all time - pass without comment.

Actually, unless you *really *want to talk about chord progression, I don’t know that one has to be a musician to recognize or appreciate the complexity of their music. At first you might not be able to identify every instrument individually because there’s so much going on, and then your brain starts to pick out the horns or the xylo notes or whatever and the more you listen the more you *can * hear all the odds and ends that add up to a unique, funky, infectious total. Can you tell I’m a fan girl ? :wink:

Growing up with their music, my circle all liked it so I never had to make a case for them, but once I moved to my current location, they were pretty much unheard of. My argument on their behalf always includes “listen to those harmonies; check out those horns; aren’t those lyrics clever!”. Not to mention I never fail to point it out when Mr. Elfman is responsible for the score of whatever movie or cartoon we’re watching, which is often. I remember they actually played at a small venue here about 24 years ago and I found some schmo who had never heard of them to accompany me to the show. He didn’t know *what *to make of them, but I had the best time.

And now, a chance to brag:

In the mid 80s I worked with Johnny Vato’s wife (she’s a designer)and not only scored many concert tickets, but had the great pleasure of receiving their gigantic, wood paneled 1960s style TV.

10

I only know Oingo Boingo by name but, as a classical music lover, I feel your pain :D. Put it this way: most people don’t care about innovative chord progressions, complex rhythms and unusual modulations. They want music that they can sing along or dance to. Which is fine. A minority wants to get more out of music than that. That’s fine, too but it’s not where the big money is.

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<bolding mine>

I realize you aren’t familiar with their music, but it has this quality in spades.

12

Yes. Also Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure.

In fact, if Tim Burton directed or produced it, there’s a damn good chance Danny Elfman did the score.

13

Five years on any instrument makes you more of a musician than most of us. :slight_smile:

14

Great! I’ll give their music a try, then. Thanks.

15

I listened to a lot of O-B back in the day. I always felt they peaked with Dead Man’s Party and I can still listen to that album in it’s entirity and enjoy it while some of the older stuff, while interesting, has almost a novelty quality to it.
When Elfman started doing musical scores I found the stuff refreshing and new. The compilation album Music for a Darkened Theatre was a favorite. However, the more scores he did over time the more I found it to be predictable. I’d watch a movie without knowing he was involved and be able to point out “Yep, that’s a Danny Elfman score” and it started to wear thin.
In fact, the whole Burton-Elfman-Depp formula stuff from the 90s, while great at the time became worn out and aged (see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or Alice in Wonderland.

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I recently listened to all of my old OB albums a couple of weeks ago; I loved them back in the early '80s. What I found was that their really good songs were still good songs, but no longer seemed really good. And their mediocre or bad songs were now terrible.

As for Elfman, I agree that his “signature” style is easy to spot (and mock). And I agree that what sounded fresh (most of the time) 30 years ago now sounds like the same shit I’ve been hearing for 30 years.

And I whole-heartedly agree that the Burton-Elfman-Depp thing is the same: utterly predictable, lame and tired. I’m not the only person who’s noticed that there’s a formula to pretty much everything they do together.

17

While Elfman has unquestionably gotten into a rut in his relationship with Tim Burton, he still does interesting and beautiful work, particularly with Gus van Sant. And if you heard this score, would you ever guess something as lush and romantic was from Elfman? (though it does retain some of his quirks). In fact, listening to Alexandre Desplat’s Oscar-winning work for The Grand Budapest Hotel, there are some very Elfmanesque moments. Shame that Danny has never earned an Oscar himself.

18

Given comments he made about “The Nightmare before Christmas”…I don’t think Danny thinks much of his vocals.

Which is a GD shame. I think they’re wonderful. He’s amazingly expressive. I hate that he’s pretty much given up vocal work. I am aware that he’s got some hearing problems now.

19

Interesting comments. I’d still recommend Oingo Boingo to anyone. It’s music that in my opinion challenges the listener in a good way.

So then, I’m still confused. Don’t listeners of pop music ever get tired of the same progressions/rhythms. Don’t they see how everyone is using the same palette of harmonic and rhythmic song conventions? What keeps them coming back? Is Am F C G a magical progression? Especially when held up to Oingo, the pop world (today, at least) looks weak.

20

When I think 1989-movie “Batman theme,” I think Irving Berlin.

(Seriously: that ‘borrowing’ was far from being Elfman’s finest hour.)