Forget the plethora of world religions and explanations. Because I suspect this “religion” thing is really what turns you off the most. Understandable. Mankind is a sorry representation of “GOD”.
So let’s just look at it from a more practical point.
We’re here. (none of this man-made-religious-are-we-really-here-bullshit)
The universe is here. We have even begun to probe the ass of it.
Doesn’t any of this say “intelligent designer”? It seems we know more of what’s outside our planet then what’s here. The oceans are still a mystery to us. What we have seen in some of the most hostile environments on earth is life. Living organisms. Flourishing. And we still haven’t seen all that is in the Earth. We have no idea how to drill through to China (pardon), but we can send a man to the Moon, a probe to Saturn… etc., etc., etc… I digress.
Is it really easier to believe that this “Being” has always existed or that the “Universe” always has? Maybe that’s true agnosticism. The Universe is the God that has always been but we can never know Him/Her/It because it is not an intelligent being but just The Universe. Maybe we will be or maybe we will not. The Universe will decide that in each if it’s new cycles.
Boy that thing has a lot of energy that never dies. Never? Ok cool. When did it begin? It’s just always been? Always?
Obvious question Numero Uno: Oh ok, so this “god” has just always been? Always? Sure has a lot of energy… good questions as well.
Still sounds like intelligence to me.
disclaimer: doesn’t mean that the intelligence gives a shit about you or me but still it does sound like we could be one of my science projects i left under my bed a week or 2 too long.
And what the hell is the deal with this supposed “shot glass” on top of my 1800? You can’t pour a shot in there, remove it and drink it! Yeah, I’d like to meet the “designer” of that.
This just seems to be a series of non sequiturs. You have given some fragments of a couple of the traditional arguments for the existence of a god, but these arguments have been around for many centuries, are well known, and the fairly simple refutations of them have also been around for several centuries, and are known to virtually all atheists and many theists. However, it is pointless trying to refute what you have put here, because there is no coherent argument in it, just unsupported assertion.
If you really want to have a discussion about these issues then:[ol]
[li]Set out your arguments clearly. Here is some help:[ul][/li][li]Cosmological argument[/li][li]Argument from design[/li][/ul]
[li]Post it in Great Debates, where such things belong[/li][li]Wait for your arguments to be ripped to shreds by people who have heard them many times before (they will also probably be defended by a few people who have heard the refutations many times before too)[/li][/ol]
As things stand, perhaps your post is in the right forum, because it is, indeed, mundane and pointless.
ETA: Well, I guess Spectre of Pithecanthropus beat me to the punch on point 2.
No. I can understand why people think that way, but it doesn’t. And the more you know about it, the less it “says” intelligent designer.
Nope. There are a few hundred billion stars in just our own galaxy, and we have significant knowledge about- what, maybe a few thousand? And there are thousands of galaxies. There are huge things we don’t understand about the universe. It’s also true that we don’t understand a lot of things about our own planet and what’s on it.
The universe has a fairly definite starting point: it’s existed for about 13.7 billion years. It’s been decades since people thought the universe had always existed. (Time has no meaning before spacetime existed, but the universe has not existed in its current form, or any form, for an infinite amount of time.)
If pantheism floats your boat, fine. But it’s really just an analogy, isn’t it? ‘The universe is like god, it’s interesting to think the universe is like god, so let’s just say the universe is god?’
No. The universe looks like a combination of random chance and evolution. And looking at living things I have to say that I’d think that an intelligent designer could do much better; living creatures are full of obvious design flaws and missed opportunities. Either I’m smarter than the Creator, there wasn’t a Creator or he just didn’t care to do a good job.
Yes. If there was a Creator, then on the first day He created some Really Righteous Shit, took it, and continued Creating. The RRS lasted for six Days, and on the Seventh Day He had to detox. How else can one explain the existence of chiggers? Or platypuses? Why would a loving God think that hemorrhoids would be a great idea?