I never got in to it. Part of it was that when it was on, I was acutely aware of how squarely it was aimed at my demographic, and the other part is that I just plain don’t enjoy snappy or clever dialog.
I think of Joss Whedon’s snark as kind of like iambic pentameter. Sure, real people don’t actually talk like that, but it’s still fun to listen to.
The snarky dialogue on Buffy may be completely unrealistic, but it’s miles more plausible than the stuff said by Aaron Sorkin penned characters.
Be that as it may, I dislike clever dialog. I don’t find it entertaining.
It’s obviously a matter of opinion, but I thought her performance in the episode when her mother died was one of the best I’ve ever seen on television, and I’m including everything I’ve ever seen on The Wire, Treme, Boardwalk Empire, and Breaking Bad. The first ten minutes of that episode left me genuinely shaken. That very rarely happens.
Thanks for the tip, I’ll try that! ![]()
I am having trouble understanding how someone can dislike cleverness. Can you explain?
I don’t have a general dislike of cleverness. I’m just bored with Whedon’s typical style of clever dialogue.
Person of Interest is pretty much the bleakest show on television right now. (I haven’t seen the Walking Dead) It’s deeply existential with some light moments. Tread carefully.
And watch in order.
And yeah, dude, when I realized after a season I didn’t like Angel because it was too masculine/man pain for my tastes, I just stopped watching it. It’s okay not to connect. No need to watch 12 seasons of it just in case you’re missing something. You won’t be.
I could have watched the first season of Angel just for the Batman references.
I watched the first episode and decided against becoming a regular viewer because I found the “clever dialogue” to be unappealing. And it wasn’t just the words, but the acting style…that “I’m on the edge of hysteria but am quipping away bravely” style that all three lead performers used for practically every line. Or so it seemed to me. I even found myself speculating on the question of who was influenced by whom; I concluded that Alyson Hannigan was the alpha and Sarah Michelle Gellar and Nicholas Brendon were unconsciously aping her.
Anyway, by the end of the season, friends were urging me to watch. So I gave it another try in season two and liked it better. The “on the edge of hysteria” line readings were still annoying, but I got into the plotting.
And I began to treasure the show as one of the few that (at least occasionally) really examined the structure of the art of storytelling. I liked the shows already mentioned as excellent (“The Body,” “Hush,” and “Once More With Feeling”) and I liked the more meta episodes even better. For example, “The Zeppo,” though deplorably clueless about the actual merits of Zeppo Marx, did a great job of parodying BtVS’s own “glories of heroic action” tropes.
So I ended up buying the entire series on DVD. It IS possible to value the show while still being less-than-fond of the Snappy Dialogue style. ![]()
To be fair, the first few episodes are very weak on terms of acting and dialogue compared to the subsequent ones. In the pilot, Boreanaz and Gellar’s acting was the worst. Not even acting, really. Just reciting lines like in '70s porn movies.
Adult male who loved it. The scene in the finale of Season 2 (I think… forgive me, it’s been a long time…) where Angelus turns back into Angel, and Buffy realizes it, but has to kill him anyway to keep the Hellmouth closed slayed me… (pun intended.)
I’m not against cleverness. I like it when my friends are clever. There are a few clever podcasts I like. But clever dialog in movies? I find it obnoxious and distracting. Always have.
I think that might be it. I like the beginning but the next few seasons were weak enough that I noticed how mediocre an actress Buffy was.
I think I liked angel better too.
I watched all of Lost too. The first season or two hooks you and you keep watching, hoping it gets good again. And to be fair, the last few seasons of buffy were pretty good.
I didn’t NOT like it, but I didn’t get why it was a big deal. Why it launched Joss Whedon into the pantheon of “awesome”
That was a pretty good scene but then Angel had to come back. And then all that teeth gnashing angst OMFG.
Wait, what? Cartoonacy, were you being a meany? ![]()
Yes, this. Buffy now suffers from the Godfather Syndrome. They did their thing first, and were amazing and original. In the decades since, they have been an influence on so many other works that they now appear derivative to new viewers.
Also, pacing. Because of the joining of arc plot and the monster of the week subplot, watching the show on demand today is not the same storytelling experience it was when it first aired. This is most noticeable in the final season, which felt dragged on forever with interminable whinging and St Crispining when it was broadcast, but now watched several episodes at a time or in one week feels so fast paced I can’t catch my breath. There’s a similar effect in the earlier seasons, although not quite as profound. Sometimes this works to the story’s benefit, and sometimes its detriment.
“whinging and St Crispining”? From a later season:
Yet another small reason I love the show. (Yes, I like clever dialogue. I like screwball comedies, too.)
Still, I can understand that others don’t like it. Just wondering why they bothered watching seven seasons of Buffy–and five of Angel–if they didn’t.
(Whinging was actually an autocorrect, but sure, I’ll take it. Makes me look like a stuffy British librarian.
)
Yeah, lots of speechifying in season 7. As it aired, I recall feeling like the whole season went, “Wah, Buffy’s depressed…time for a speech to rally the troops. Wah, Buffy’s sad, life isn’t fair, this stuff is hard…time for another speech…Wah, Buffy’s PMSing, good lord, another speech?” My eyeballs nearly got lost under the couch from all the eyerolling.
But as I say, I really really like the pacing when it’s watched in a binge.
Yeah, I watched most of the series when it was originally broadcast, but the final season could not hold my interest. I’ve still not watched most of it.