Buffy: The Perpetual Critics

OK, this is my first pit thread, so please be merciful. By the way, in case you’re wondering, I do realize that this might qualify as the dorkiest pit thread of all time.

I watch “Buffy the Vampire Slayer,” and have for the last five years. I watch it because I think that it’s one of the best written, directed, and acted shows on television, because it never ceases to amuse me, move me, or make me think, and because I have a recurring fantasy about being stranded on an island with Sarah Michelle Gellar and five hundred canisters of RediWhip.

Last night was the season premiere of the show, and it might have been the best two hours of television I’ve ever seen. It had laugh-out-loud lines, skillful and surprising character development, and several moments that were truly horrific - terrifying, gave me actual nightmares - I love it.

So this morning (don’t worry, the rant is coming, I promise), I head to the various message boards related to the show, hoping to discuss the show intelligently. Ha. As usual, the crowd of perpetual critics dominates the floor. These creatively-impaired idiots are never, never, never happy with anything that doesn’t come from the first two seasons of the show. They bitch about a lack of meaningful interaction between two particular characters; last night’s show was filled with such interaction, so they bitch that the scenes were too long. They bitch about one character’s obsession with sex, and then bitch when that character talks about other things. They have the nerve to bitch about the quality of the writing, which is absolutely absurd. Above all, they seem insistent that, in order to earn their respect, the show should stay in a state of temporal stasis, in which every character behaves exactly as they did about midway through season two, in which no one ever leaves, dies, or joins the group. They do not wish the show to evolve, to mirror real life; they are pissed because they don’t get to determine the course of events. And when they complain, they toss off the same tired lines, hopping all over one another to repeat the same criticisms and make themselves sound oh, so intelligent and sophisticated.

OK, listen up, you imagination-deficient, sweaty-soap-opera-fanfic-writing, big-word-misusing, whining-for-thoughtful-discussion-mistaking, amateur critics: you are not fit to clean the gunk out of the word processor of Joss Whedon, David Fury, Marti Noxon, or any of the other writers on the staff of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.” The things you have to say are not original, not clever, and not even accurate. The essence of dramatic art is the evolution of characters, and you sound ridiculous when all you can do is complain that “I miss the ‘old’ so-and-so,” as if real people never change. Above all, if you don’t like the show any more, if it’s themes have evolved beyond high school and therefore beyond your comprehension, then STOP WATCHING. PLEASE! Stop sitting in your parents basement, feverishly watching every second of every episode for some tiny flaw that you can magnify the next morning as your “intelligent” contribution to the discussion. JUST STOP. No, don’t threaten to stop. STOP. Go watch “Friends.” I am tired of hearing the same voices warning that "if things don’t change (ie, go back to the way they were), I’ll stop watching). JUST STOP.

And leave the discussion of the show to the people who actually understand concepts like “character arc,” “plot development,” and “good writing.”

  • Frank

Sorry to inform you that Simpsons fans have been griping that way on the internet for at least 6 or 7 years now, you’ll be hearing this for a long, long time.

[comic book guy]
Worst episode ever!
[/comic book guy]

In other words… death to minutiae-geeks.

I’ve never seen the show. However, I did enjoy Paul Reuben’s death scene in the original movie…

Well, Frank, let me tell you something…

It’s my favorite show, and fuck those guys!!!

Best two hours of television? Hey, I love the show, and watch it religiously, but last night’s show was just average, and that’s giving it the benefit of the doubt. It’s nothing like the Joyce death episode, or Hush, let alone half a dozen excellent West Wing episodes.

Frankly, they need a good villian. The mayor was the best, everyone since then has been a disappointment. The GI Joes, Adam, and Glory, all blech. Josh can still pull off excellent television, he just isn’t very consistant lately.

I’m still watching, though.

Considering this is your first pit thread, let me be the first to commend you.

Perfect!

It makes me actually want to watch that bitch Sarah Michelle Geller.

Telemark -

The scene in which Buffy awakens in the coffin and, clearly panicked, starts clawing her way out, it just got me. It overwhelmed me, and I’m not sure why. But it made me so invested in the plot that I couldn’t pull myself away from the TV. That’s what made it so good, in my mind; it had a few moments - Willow killing the deer, Spike slamming down the playing cards early on, and the confrontation at the end - that just got to me, in a way that not even “The Body” did.

I agree about the need for a good villian this year, though. I’d be intrigued to see Willow in that role, because the actress has enough charisma to pull it off.

Cnote -

A bitch she may be (I’ve certainly heard stories), but an attractive one and a skilled actor.

  • Frank

I am not sure if it was the best two hours of T.V. ever, but the season premier did leave me with an insane desire to work “That’ll put marzipan in your pie plate. Bingo!” into everyday conversation.

All television is pap.

Some shows are more tasty pap than others.

I enjoyed last night’s show. That was a good scene when Buffy was trying to claw her way out of her coffin. I would love to be stranded on an island with Spike:-Þ

Well, nothing else was on so I watched Buffy. I figured, “Hey, some of the smartest people I know like this show. They have great taste with everything else…”
Well apparently everybody can make a mistake. Maybe it’s just because this is the first episode I’ve ever seen, but…bleh.
The fight scenes were boring. The only good part was Willow. The whole thing was boring, actually. Maybe it was just this episode…I’ll try again next week I guess. I’d hate to make rash judgements, I mean, it must be better than last night if it lasted this long.

Nah, the coffin scene did nothing for me. SMG, bless her little heart, is an actress of limited range. Her “scared”, “confused”, “neanderthal”, and “recently dead” are all about the same. She’s done a good job on many episodes, but I cringe when she’s asked to emote too much.

Hey, it was a good episode. Just not great. She came back way too easily, making her death seem cheap. I would have prefered if she stayed dead for several episodes, making her return more of a shock.

I’ll still watch, but Angel seems to have more interesting stuff. Hopefully this season will be better than last season, which really suffered from having Glory around.

I will agree, with the qualification that, in BtVS, SMG hasn’t been asked to do all that much. In the few times where she has been asked to stretch, e.g. playing a 16-17 y.o. desperately in love with a vampire, or as a 17 y.o runaway (“Anne”), she was believable. If your critcism is that SMG didn’t accurately capture the emotions of a person just raised from the dead, show me a real-life example and compare how they reacted to SMG. :smiley:

Agreed. A minor nitpick of the episode - the cutaways to commercial were too obvious.

Good point, but IMO, Angel deals with more interesting subject matter. BtVS has always been “big picture” - save the world from the Apocalypse. Angel is generally smaller picture - save X from whatever demon threat. To my mind, the small picture is more interesting.

Sua

I once made a mistake, in 1992 (long story). Hey, I would agree that last night’s episode would be generally incomprehensible to a neophyte fan (Buffybot? Spike’s a vampire? Willow’s killing that cute little deer? WTF?)
Just one nitpick - sure, the fight scenes are boring. The fight scenes long ago stopped being “cool, fight scene!” and instead became dramatic reinforcement - Buffy can do such things, explaining how she is important.

Sua

My only complaint about last nights show is that I missed it! Dammit.

I was caught up watching That 70’s Show (good), watched Three Sisters and taped Undeclared (not bad), caught the premier of Bob Patterson and Scrubs (both good, Scrubs especially) and then watched Philly (pretty good, actually.)

Dammit! I wonder if they’ll have a re-broadcast?

I just started watching it from the beginning last week on FX, so imagine how weird watching last night’s season opener was for me!

I have to say the acting has improved tremendously from the first season, when SMG was very stiff, trying WAY too hard, as were the rest. They are much more relaxed and believable now.

I really need to find out who all these new people are, though.

And how could Giles leave!?!?!?

Love the Demons on Bikes.

Best line, Spike to Giles:
“See your whole life flash before your eyes, did you? Cuppa tea, cuppa tea, almost got shagged, cuppa tea, cuppa tea.”

Just out of curiosity, what are your criteria for defining something as “art,” as opposed to what you call “pap?” Is it possible for movies to be art? How about movies broadcast on television? Made-for-TV movies?

  • Frank

I can’t get UPN. Direct TV, 2 visits to Radio Shack for antennas - still no Buffy. Don’t even talk to me right now.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

The behavior the OP is describing is that of pathetic fanboys and girls everywhere. They are always reviewing the show or film they wish they saw rather than the one they did. They are lucky that creative and talented people work in Hollywood and give them the shows and movies that fill their empty, pathetic lives.

Next time they get you down, storyteller, suggest that they get back to work on their own scripts for their own successful and entertaining television shows and stop whining.

and my personal “favorite”:

You know, it was a much better show before season

I agree Stoid, that line made me smile all night

I suppose I’m one of the perpetual critics. I haven’t seen last night’s show yet, because it won’t be shown here until Saturday, so I can’t really comment on it. I’ll probably watch it on Saturday, just to give it a chance. However, I’m ready to drop my watching of the show. While I agree that Buffy is usually a very smart, very fun show, (to me, calling something “the best show on tv” is like deciding which french fries are the most healthy) I haven’t been impressed with the last two seasons. I feel the quality of the writing has greatly slipped, and that the characters have not developed so much as been crowbarred into roles the writers decided they should be in now.

Honestly, I think there are a lot of problems with the quality of the writing. And I could give you examples of what I feel is poor quality and you would say otherwise and we’d go back and forth for pages and neither one of us would accomplish anything because it all comes down to a matter of taste, and neither of us is going to convince the other that their taste is wrong. So we do what we can do, which is, you keep watching the show and I (probably) don’t and then everyone seems to be satisfied.

As for people who watch the show and dislike it, I used ot catch grief for actually daring to be critical of The X-Files on alt.tv.x-files back in the fourth seasons when it really started to suck. It’s easy to say “If you don’t like it, don’t watch it,” but that doesn’t address people (like me ) who were frustrated at seeing a show the formerly liked going down the tubes so far so fast.

Again, I am not denying your right to your opinion. I’m just saying, look at it from the other side. There are people out here who used to really enjoy the show and now enjoy it less, and we, at least, feel we have reason to do so.