So, you are assuming they got by as they were old white men. That is just like assuming some young black woman was hired to fill a quota, and had no skills.
Good grief, no! I had to work with these guys. They had no skills. I had to do extra work to make up for their short comings. But they were part of the GOB network and were protected. Sheesh. I don’t assume people have no skills; I let them prove it to me.
This dear friends is what white privilege looks like.
Moderating: that there are some old white guys who survive at high levels despite being unqualified is undoubtedly true, but has little to do with this thread. Please drop the topic.
That’s excellent - you actually pissed off some recruitment/HR person who knows their job skills are quickly obsolescing.
Yes, you should be flamed on that, but because it isn’t limited to them. I’ve seen this, especially fake-it-til-you-make-it with many others, including some born-and-bred Americans. And I understand why they do it. Because they feel they must in order to get a job. It works for a few, but many have high expectations and aren’t doing enough homework to make it.
It’s a change from the old “we train our workers” to “we expect you to be an expert in this software that has only been on the market six months.” Many of us were rudely introduced to the change when we were laid off our old jobs without the software skills needed to pick up an equivalent job because other companies had moved on.
In the year of our Lord two thousand twenty-two,
- I still keep paper resumes and applications, which get marked up by a pen. I like the consistency of our own applications for this purpose.
- I still call applicants on the telephone to set up an interview. It is faster and more convenient than typing out
asd_3287u5qqq@indeed.com, plus I can work out schedules in real time. Email is for candidates who have no phone or whose voicemail is full/not set up, and also for sending the address and paperwork after the interview is scheduled. - Lots of candidates don’t have printer access at home
- I still receive some resumes and letters of recommendation by fax, and have in fact sent some of our applications by fax.
If you don’t have the application ready when you get to our waiting room we’ll have you fill it out then and there.
~Max
My office has job applicant tracking software. It helps us produce EEO reports. Every thing gets tracked, age,race,gender. The latest requirement is adding non-binary on the EEO-1 form.
A standardized applicant form makes data entry much easier. We converted to online forms a few years ago. The applicant data goes directly into our database.
A resume is useful for our department heads. But we must have the data to comply with Federal reporting.
Many years ago, I was unemployed and drawing unemployment. I found a job opening working for…the unemployment office. Since it’s a government job and I wasn’t politically connected, I didn’t know what my chances were but the pay was ok. But if I got it, there would be good benefits and probably job security.
So I filled out the application and went for the interview (the town was about 30 minutes from where I was living). I interviewed with an older man (about 60) and a young woman (25-30) whom he may have been training. As the man asked me questions, I answered and the woman was the total opposite of a poker face.
She reacted to my answers, nodding, smiling etc. like she thought I had given some pretty good replies. The man, though, was stone-faced, just perfunctorily checking a box.
I got the letter, via mediocre USPS first class mail, saying the job wasn’t mine in only 24 hours. I bet they had it typed up before I entered their office; when I appeared they just stamped it and dropped it in the mail, maybe before I even left.
I was mightily peeved that I’d spent time to fill in an application when they already knew whom they were going to hire. I also thought it sucked that I drove the half hour there and back. If I had also been required to fill out the application in front of them, that probably would have put me over the edge.
Some of these employers who now say they can’t keep staff—maybe it’s karma catching up.
I interview physicians and nurse practitioners for government jobs. The first thing I do is apologize for the upcoming interview, telling them that as a government agency we have to follow a strict set of procedures about how to conduct the interview, making sure it’s essentially the same for every applicant, to make sure we have a level playing field for all applicants. I tell them we’ll be asking them standard questions in a certain order, requiring them to fill out certain repetitive paperwork, etc. Then I assure them that once that bit is all over, we’ll have a chance to talk about the job like normal human beings. And I emphasize the jobs perks and advantages.
I’ve found that approach makes candidates more comfortable and more willing to tolerate the bureaucratic BS. But some few can’t seem to wrap their heads around it and get huffy.
Thank you for doing that.
I wish I’d been told that BEFORE I had the most wooden, most boring job interview ever. And this was for a Graphic Design job with a wild place full of… my wild friends.
Before the interview, they’d been informed by an HR drone that due to Union rules they were not allowed to give ANY FEEDBACK, so NO indication whether my answers were good or bad, or even on the right track. They weren’t even allowed to clarify a question. So every time I asked “By that, do you mean…?” they looked at the HR guy, who emphatically shook his head NO.
Epilog:
After this had been the rule for every interview for years, we (yeah, WE… I got hired… maybe I was the only one who put up with that insulting hour of torture) found out it was NOT a Union or even an HR rule. It was just this one jerk’s way of asserting his dominance…
I would highly recommend you be more flexible if you want to hire anyone under… well, hell, I’m pushing 70 and I do all my job communications online… especially applications and forms.
I would roll my eyes and assume your whole company was stuck in the 20th century.
*Whoa, wait… you want us to believe you have applicants (plural) who have computers/ISPs/email accounts, but no access to a phone?
Okay… is this a whoosh? Am I spending time responding to someone who’s just being contrary to everyone else? Because … high drama? Interweb Points?
This. It’s just so disrespectful of my time, to ask me to enter data in the system YOU have chosen when I’ve already provided the information to you in the form that YOU requested.
You don’t want to pay your staff to re-enter my data? Cool. Then you can use it in the firm I gave to you in.
I meant no working phone service, but also people who don’t put their phone number on the resume. Both are more common than you may expect, at the lower end of the pay scale.
I wouldn’t fax an application unless someone asked for it to be faxed, the assumption is that you don’t have access to a personal fax machine and I wouldn’t want to fax a job application to your current employer.
~Max
Not sure why this is replied to me, when it is really a reply to @Qadgop_the_Mercotan but I agree with you. Learning upfront about the hiring process immediately makes me think you are honest and worth listening to.