Although the focus seems to be on sexual jealousy, another point is a question of emotional intimacy. How many people want to share the closeness of their spouse with someone else? Obviously some don’t mind, but there are others who do not want this.
While it was really great for my daughter to have my SIL staying with us, it was not the same as just our family. I really like my SIL, but we didn’t talk that much. When my wife would be out all day at a conference, then come back. suddenly there would be me, the SIL and our daughter all wanting to talk to her.
I can see how that could easily be the case with a polygamous relationship.
Another problem was that since a lot of the child care was being taken care of by my SIL, there were times that they would discuss our daughter’s needs instead of involving me. If the sister wives were really close, I could see how the husband could be marginalized.
Japanese families have traditionally had the eldest son remain with the parents, and when he gets married, his bride joins the family.
I’ve read countless stories of the difficulties and problems between the mother and daughter-in-law. Younger generations just are not doing this because women are not agreeing to move into the family household. Obviously this is different than polygamy, but it’s also an indication of the difficulty of bringing together people into the same house.
(my bolding)
:mad: I do not like that qualifier. We are doing the best job we can as two people living in a foreign country. I spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about how to raise my children and am devoting my time and energy to being the best father I can. I do not like people making judgments about the way my wife and I have chosen to have a family. We can and do make our family excellent, even if there are only two of us to do it.
It’s not quite the same. Even though there are deadbeat dads, there is still a legal relationship. I’d think that with poly families where a child might be closer to a non-bio parent, the resulting loss would be magnified somewhat, particularly if the members of that relationship are dependent on the bio-parents for access, with no legal standing to establish a relationship that way.
No, it’s not an excellent way to raise children. It’s inherently unstable, unequal to women, emotionally immature and phobic, and essentially prioritizes the selfish sexual desires of the men above all else. It’s a grotesque, role-playing psychodrama and a dysfunctional parody of what a family should be. That’s my opinion, and it’s not going to change.
I think really my greatest fear in terms of children being raised in a home where a more-than-two-way relationship is part of the household structure is that the atmosphere will be, almost by default, more sexually charged than a standard, mono household, which I think is Dio’s objection, as well. I also worry about the bonding as a family. I think parents need to be very tightly bonded if they are going to raise children as a unit in the same household, and having a few extra people around seems to me as though it would interfere with that.
Yes, the more people you add to the paradigm, the more inherently unstable it becomes, and the more potential for all kinds of internecine dramas, infidelities alliances, etc. None of it good for thje kids. I also think the family becomes less tightly bonded when you have extra, random fuck buddies hanging around wanting to fuck the kids’ mom.
I also think kids should know who their parents are and be able to have the security of a household without a revolving door of fuck buddies. I don’t care if I sound old fashioned on this. I’m right.
jealousy can be caused by fear of loss. some people don’t have that fear. poly people can be free of jealousy or they can learn to live with it. poly people can develop mechanisms to deal with jealousy; communication is important. you can develop methods to keep jealousy from occurring or keep it from being damaging.
I think it’s bullshit to dimiss the hurt caused by infidelity, or desire for exlusive pair-bonding as “jealousy.” That’s just callous and self-serving.
Indeed I was, by a stepbrother who was in foster care when he was a small child (before my Dad and Stepmom got together) and was himself sexually molested by his foster father. Not by any parents.
Now, I really don’t agree with Dio in condemning any polygamous situation whatsoever, but I wanted to point a few things out that have gotten lost in the thread as it has gone on longer: Sarah’s hypothetical in the OP is about a polygynous family. Not the arrangement WhyNot is describing.
I’m not a parent and I’ve certainly never tried raising children in that kind of environment, but this is probably a big reason why every poly relationship I’ve ever known of is rocked constantly by needless, stupid drama.
In a monogamous relationship, there is one relationship. Person A with Person B. In a triad, you have three relationships: Person A with Person B, Person B with Person C, and Person C with Person A. Open it up to four people and now you have Person A with Person B, Person B with Person C, Person C with Person D, Person D with Person A, Person A with Person C, and Person B with Person D. Every new relationship–whether they’re sleeping together or just part of the group–is a new point for misunderstandings, jealousy, anger, annoyance, alliances, etc.
It works for some people and it seems to make them happy, but it is inherently less stable than a relationship between two people.
Do you accept that there exists people who are not hurt by having the person they love sleep with someone else? Not only am I not hurt by the idea of that at this stage in my life, but I have never been particularly possesive, jealous, envious or affected or concerned much about whether or not he was desiring other women.
Such people do exist. They are different from you and your wife. Everyone doesn’t believe in one man and one woman together forever amen. Some people are rule breakers, spontanieous, immature, reckless, artistic, playful and totally and completely non-traditional. They love their partners, they love their kids, and they may raise kids who are different, who think differently but who are well loved and taken care of. And though some may judge those people as bad parents for bringing them up in a poly household, still others may judge anyone who teaches their child Christianity or Catholicism or any other mysogynist religion as bad parents. Doesn’t make it so. Instead all kinds of different lifestyles can be good for kids providing that the parents surely love and care for the kids to the best of their own ideas of what is right or wrong. There will always be monsters or psychos who abuse their own children and don’t raise them with the best of intentions or love. But I don’t think every poly parent would fit that description.
I don’t know much about how religion plays in most poly relationships. But in cases where religion is not an issue, where free minded people just decide that they want to live a poly lifestyle, I think it can be an excellent way to raise a kid.
I’m not trying to change your mind. I am only quoting you so that others who are interested in reading different views on the topic can know what I think of your views.
Please don’t misstate my OP, Tokyo, that is my special peeve. I said the same thing that this OP said, in far fewer words, with additional references to the TV show. At no point did I even come close to suggesting that a “solution” was needed for monogamy, nor did I compare the best to the worst of anything. I also said that “On the whole I think monogamy vs. polygamy is all about sexual jealousy”. Later in the thread I commented that monogamy is unnatural, without any value judgment attached.
Accuracy really does count, you know, and it’s particularly important to me that my statements are accurately quoted or paraphrased.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I now return you to this thread.
if the people know how to do quality relationships then the relationship can be successful, that is the case for both mono and poly.
is poly harder, it can be, some people do it effortlessly, for most it takes more effort. is poly more complex, yes there are more relationships to up keep.
just as mono people need to put energy and care into their relationship then so do poly, just more of it. while mono people might have time for a relationship and 3 or 4 hobbies, a poly person might have time for the relationship and 1 or 2 hobbies.
Every point where you have a different relationship is a weak point and, thus, adds instability. That doesn’t make poly relationships bad, but the group as a whole is more likely to change over the long term because of those weak points. I know poly folks who’ve been with their primary partners for years, but secondary partnerships come and go.
I can have the same best friend from the time I’m five until the day I die, but the other friends in our group might come and go. That doesn’t mean our other friends weren’t true friends or we’re immature. It’s the simple fact that group dynamics are more complex and harder to maintain than the dynamic between two people.
primary/secondary is often in dating/dating or married/dating and the secondary might not be intended to be permanent, though some can be.
poly people do enter into committed relationships with the intent of it being permanent. there are people in polyfidelitous or extralegal poly marriages that go on for decades.
poly takes more time, more skill, the right mix of people and it can work well.
I’m sure that there are poly-people who have permanent or semi-permanent arrangements. That doesn’t change the fact that for each new individual added to a relationship you are making it more complicated. This isn’t a moral pronouncement. It’s math.
I don’t think TokyoPlayer means to “misstate” your OP. He was interpreting it based on other things you said in that thread, which I think is fair. If you think he’s misinterpreting, it’s also fair for you to say how.
Regarding my OP…I quoted your OP in its entirety, and I disagree that you said the same thing I said. I laid out exactly what kind of poly relationship I was referring to, whereas you reference the Browns as your example, while then proceeded to protest throughout the whole thread that the Brown family isn’t a good example of what you’re talking about.
Finally, I know in the other thread you said that your parents taught you to use reason and use your intelligence to arrive at the truth. Which are fabulous values that I hope to instill in my children. One strange thing, though, is for someone who prides herself on finding out the truth, you are surprisingly apt to take statements at face value, especially when they confirm your already-held opinions.
just like a multistory building is more complicated than a single story building, it can be made to work with materials and methods appropriate to the case.
poly does take more time and effort. a person might have less free time or need to work harder to get it to be successful.