Not at all. I’m glad I cleared things up for you. 
Oh, a very witty bon mot, my good man! Most excellent riposte! My hat is off to you for your unparalleled erudition!
I have heard this as an equal comparison to Jimmy Carter a number of times. The fact that he is a politician from Chicago didn’t seem to matter to them at the time.
Even I’ll say that’s unfair to Obama. Jimmy Carter is so darn nice he forgot to be good.
I made a post back in July essentially accusing him of the same thing. I have to admit I was wrong. Liberal seems sincere in his beliefs, and supported the guy he thought was best for the country, ignoring the party designation. Good for him, I wish more people thought like that.
It will not matter how “good” Obama is, if he does not inspire and demand ethical behavior from others in his administration - and take prompt action to clean up the inevitable messes.
There’ll be plenty of opportunities for personal propriety to face off against political expediency.
Obama is a question mark. We will soon find out who he is. Bush has been a disaster. McCain was much like Bush and offered nothing but trouble. I have no great expectations from Obama. I think we need more help than simply changing presidents can provide.
Oh I’ve believed that his support was real, but I still have a hard time believing that his current posts are completely sincere. Many amount to this.
For all this time I’ve read him as a critical thinker and it is a bit disconcerting to see him willingly turn his critical brain off like that. I’d prefer to believe that he is just whooshing but he does deny doing so, again and again.
He is posting like a satire of the followers that the Shodan and his ilk accuse Obama fans of being. And he’s serious? Really?
Really?
If you say, “Really” one more time while looking in a mirror, Rahm Emmanuel appears and kicks you in the nuts.
It was a throw-away post so let me clean it up.
Those that presented the argument to me were alluding (sometimes just flat out) to Obama not having enough dirt on people (too short of a career) or is unwilling to use dirt on the congress-critters to get what he whats.
Intelligent and genuinely good guy that would be unwilling to let his people be ‘ethically challenged’ thus being ineffectual…like Carter.
I’ve said the same thing about Bush for 8 years…
Well, ok. You got me. River Boat Gamblers and Whores have more morals than George Dubbya Bush, but this isn’t about McCain or Palin…
Obama was my second choice after Hillary, because I thought only Hillary would be prepared for what was in store for her. I’m not unhappy Obama got the nod and I am happy that he won. We’ve got a lot of digging out to do and he might do it. He seems like an almost first rate intellect and a first rate plus character. It seems he takes the non-partisan thing seriously. I think that might not work out in the long run because in my experience the opposition (thank whomever they are again opposition status) is purely partisan. I may be wrong and in fact I hope I’m wrong or at least partially wrong.
But I can understand why Obama has captured a lot of support from people in the middle or whom have traditionally supported the other side. He is very soothing and even and level headed. Smoking cigarettes seems to be his one vice. And as long as I don’t have to breathe it, I can tolerate it.
As for the Chicago school thing, I can see why that would be very important to a libertarian type. I don’t care for it as Chicago school economics makes a religion out of low-inflation and no regulations, when I believe they are only two of many factors to consider.
Anyway, I wish President-Elect Obama the best. I am proud of the electorate for voting for him.
Does anyone else remember when Liberal used to post absolutely dead-on parodies in the pit of other threads, and play them to the hilt, without ever giving even the slightest hint that there was an ironic intent to the thread? Although I believe that Liberal really does like Obama, I suspect there’s more than a trace of the old satire going on in his recent posts about the man.
Pres. Obama came up through the Chicago Daley Machine. He can’t be as squeaky clean as everyone hopes he is; he would’ve been popped (two to the head) shortly after becoming a “community organizer.”
Pretty much sums up the last year or so. Obama can walk on water and split a fish & loaf of bread and feed thousands.
Now he’s elected all the usuals are back crying, “dude, you don’t expect him to be or doing anything other than not be Bush, riiiiiight? Duuuuude? Pass me the doob. Don’t bogart.”
I just want to make it clear that the fact that Liberal’s politics don’t seem to match Obama’s is not the reason for my confusion (at least, not the only reason). He’s not the only libertarian type around here who prefered Obama to McCain, so that alone isn’t the issue. It’s that the rhetoric he has used in expressing his admiration is so…effusive that at times it doesn’t seem that it could possibly be sincere.
I mean, really…the post DSeid and I both linked to, where he says that we should all just relax and let Obama handle the middle east problems? Seriously? It just doesn’t seem possible that he could truly have that much faith in the man. Or any man, for that matter.
Miller, I actually don’t remember Liberal’s satire threads, but I think you might be onto something. No reason he couldn’t be an Obama supporter AND have a little fun at the expense of certain others, I guess.
FWIW, (I’m a… let’s say infrequent… poster but a heavy reader), I think Lib’s completely genuine in his support of Obama. However, I have to agree with Miller in that I think Lib has shown in the past an incredible ability for satire.
Whether he intends it or not, (and make no mistake I respect the hell out of Liberal), I think perhaps some of that of that leaks through a bit.
Well then I better not address you by name!
Yes, really.
But let me clear up an apparent misconception. I’m not saying to trust Obama blindly, without any critical thinking. What I’m saying is that my critical thinking has led me to trust Obama until and unless a compelling reason not to emerges.
Maybe it’s a generational thing, or a regional thing, or fuck I don’t know — just a personal thing. But the way I see it, that’s what leaders are FOR. It is stupid, in my opinion, to put a qualified person in a leadership position and then deliberately oppose him. If the idea was to give the person a lot of unnecessary hassle and criticism, then we could have put just any-ol’-body in there. McCain would be just as good as Obama if what we were looking for was someone to bitch about.
I expect certain things of my leaders. I expect an intelligence equal to or greater than my own. Obama: check. I expect a moral character far above my own. Obama: check. I expect a temperament that is calm and deliberative but alert. Obama: check. I expect compassion, courage, inspiration, and strength. Obama: check, check, check, and check.
Given how I evaluate his qualifications, I would have to be an idiot not to let him, you know… lead. Does he match me 100% with every single nuance of policy? No, of course not. But it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than inviting someone to pray for him whom I dont like for me to chuck it all and say, “Fuck it. Let’s get Sarah Palin in there!”
To lose my trust, he’s going to have to lose his qualifications in my eyes. Maybe I am overly giddy about him. So what. Name a time when a leader emerged whom one could describe with the same superlatives. Ronald Reagan was close, but no cigar. Now, given that what our nation needs more than anything right now is leadership, in my opinion, I am utterly delighted that the person we have chosen to lead us is trustworthy.
I think we should certainly maintain our vigilance. God knows, it wouldn’t be the first time a politician has fooled us. But it doesn’t make any sense to tear him down before he’s done anything. Damn right I think we should shut the fuck up and let him formulate and execute a Mideast policy. It is AFTER he has done that that we should evaluate its success or failure.
But with all due respect to my Doper colleagues, and in recognition of the fact that generations of experts have tackled many of the problems Obama is attempting to address, I don’t think it’s beyond the pale of reason to sit back and give him a fucking chance. It is a fact, as I see it, that even if his ideas are the greatest ever conceived, his mission can be sabotaged by small-minded opposition. I guess the gist of it is that since I find him to be such a great leader, I intend to be the best follower I can — not a potted plant, but not a bridge troll either.
I’ve pretty much explained all this before. So I’d appreciate it if you’d give me the benefit of the doubt. I mean, it’s not that my world will crumble if you don’t believe me. But I don’t want to lose respect just because some people think I’m conducting some longterm joke or parody. I’m proud of this country for the first time since I can remember. Let me enjoy it if only briefly in the scheme of things.
My goodness, Sarahfeena! He lived in Chicago and therefore he’s entangled? Is your city some sucky black hole from which no one can escape without being contaminated? Or are you refering to the entire state? Even Burnt Prarie?
Or maybe it’s the Democrats! They’re all in a conspiracy to pick the next Senator from Illinois! They don’t want to be, but because of their proximity to each other and their Evil Mind Sets, some Force compels them to conspire…
Or is it a Farce that compels them to conspire?
The Shodan has no ilk.
May the Farce be with you.