[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Personally, I don’t think there should be any exemption. Kids don’t have shots?* Kids can’t come to school.*
[/QUOTE]
Why do I have the feeling many of these parents would prefer to home school their kids anyway? (Keep 'em away from potential germs and potentially dangerous ideas)
Harmonious Discord, that is amazing.
[QUOTE=Isosleepy]
I’m not going to dig very deep into the three studies (re vaccination and autism) you mention, but off the top of my head I remember that there are in fact questions to the methodology of the Danish study, but there are even more important issues with that one: The vaccination schedule is different in Denmark vs the US, (resulting in less exposure to Thimerosal and spread out over a longer period of time), Vaccination compliance in Demnark is lower than in the US, and Thimerosal was phased out almost a decade earlier than it was here.
[/quote]
The degree of thimerosal exposure was not markedly different in Denmark compared to the United States. And since the phase-out of thimerosal in Danish vaccines years ago, the autism rate has not dropped (it would be expected to have markedly declined if the thimerosal in vaccines caused autism). In fact, this is the central finding that debunks the purported vaccine-autism link: In no country where thimerosal has been taken out of vaccines has the autism rate plummeted (it has remained stable or increased).
While many antivaxers are deriving all of their “information” from websites like SafeMinds, Generation Rescue and various loonies who have long been convinced that vaccination adulterates their Precious Bodily Fluids, I recommend a new book, Arthur Allen’s Vaccine. It’s a fine history of vaccination, its enormous legacy of good and the continued challenges it faces from the misinformed. The section on the autism-related witchhunt is especially good, chronicling the desperation of parents of autistics, the sleazy science embraced by antivaxers and exploitation of sick children by promoters of autism “cures”.
As far as the power of parental observation goes, there’s a revealing story concerning British parents who became convinced after publication of the Wakefield MMR study that their children displayed mental changes after being vaccinated. Investigation revealed that over a third of them had expressed concerns about their kids’ mental problems before they had ever been vaccinated.
Newbie here, chiming in.
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
I recommend a new book, Arthur Allen’s Vaccine.
[/QUOTE]
I couldn’t put it down. Allen really knows how to turn a phrase. My favorite (from Thimerosal on Trial: The Vaccine-Autism Link Goes to Court) – “foxhole bonds,” as in, “the foxhole bonds among those convinced that the government and drug companies poisoned their babies with vaccines.” Here’s some more of his recent writing on the subject:
Epidemiology on the Dock
In Autism-Vaccine Case, RNA and a Prayer
The Powerful Case Against MMR in Autism
Thimerosal Vindicated in Another Study, Yet … the Show Must Go On
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
As far as the power of parental observation goes, there’s a revealing story concerning British parents who became convinced after publication of the Wakefield MMR study that their children displayed mental changes after being vaccinated. Investigation revealed that over a third of them had expressed concerns about their kids’ mental problems before they had ever been vaccinated.
[/QUOTE]
There was similarly revealing testimony offered on the sixth day of hearings in Cedillo v. HHS, the first “test case” in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding. Although the petitioners asserted that everything went to hell in a handbasket after their child got her shots, after reviewing the child’s medical records and home movies, Dr. Eric Fombonne (an epidemiologist and clinician based at McGill University) pointed to early onset of social communication difficulties, strong evidence of motor delay, early macrocephaly, poor eye contact, a tendency to fixate on things, and unusual, repetitive gestures. Not noticing these things doesn’t mean that the parents were unobservant; it means they were first-time parents unfamiliar with children’s developmental stages.
Judging from the docket sheet in the case, it looks like the petitioners fought to keep the home movies from being entered as evidence.
This post explains the only thing that is important to those of us you call “anti-vaccination”. The rest of the controversy is irrelevant. Curing kids is all that matters.
[QUOTE=foresam]
This post explains the only thing that is important to those of us you call “anti-vaccination”. The rest of the controversy is irrelevant. Curing kids is all that matters.
[/QUOTE]
Are you in any way suggesting that ‘pro vaccination’ parents are not just as concerned with their children’s health? Seriously?
[
If we cure them, they’ll be healthy.
QUOTE=maggenpye]Are you in any way suggesting that ‘pro vaccination’ parents are not just as concerned with their children’s health? Seriously?
[/QUOTE]
If we vaccinate them against disease, they’ll be healthy.
That’s why vaccinations were developed.
If your perceived risk works for you, that’s fine.
But don’t you fucking dare suggest I don’t take my child’s health just as seriously. That I didn’t look into the risks I took, just as deeply.
My child doesn’t need ‘curing’.
and I don’t take my medical advice off a blog.
[QUOTE=foresam]
This post explains the only thing that is important to those of us you call “anti-vaccination”. The rest of the controversy is irrelevant. Curing kids is all that matters.
[/QUOTE]
You are not going to cure kids with the quackery advocated in the pathetically stupid link you pulled up.
Chelation therapy is not a treatment for autism, let alone a cure:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/autism-treatment/AN01488
This ridiculous idea has already killed a child:
5 out of 6 who are vaccinated will be healthy. Of course, they would be more healthy if their immune systems got a workout by fighting off measles, mumps and rubella like my generation did. The MMR shot is idiocy at its’ finest.
You should not have to put your kid at risk by shooting mercury into him. The flu shot is still unsafe for that reason.
If your kid is autistic, he needs curing. People who preach against this belong in asylums.
You would be much better off taking medical advice about autism off a blog. The doctors who caused the autism epidemic refuse to admit their malpractice so bloggers are spreading the truth as best they can. I hope you now understand the situation but feel free to ask more questions.
[QUOTE=maggenpye]
If we vaccinate them against disease, they’ll be healthy.
That’s why vaccinations were developed.
If your perceived risk works for you, that’s fine.
But don’t you fucking dare suggest I don’t take my child’s health just as seriously. That I didn’t look into the risks I took, just as deeply.
My child doesn’t need ‘curing’.
and I don’t take my medical advice off a blog.
[/QUOTE]
Hi Lavender Blue,
Is someone in your family autistic? If so, we now know how to cure some autism and it could benefit you to learn all you can about curing autism at the hating autism blog. I have helped cure several children with chelation. The only people who call it quackery are the quacks who injected too much mercury into infants and caused their autism. They have to take such cruel action towards children to deflect the lawsuits that will break them and land some of them in jail. Sometimes it helps to recognize the motivation of those who start the name calling to arrive at the truth.
Chelation never harmed anyone. Medical malpractice killed two children by using the wrong chelators. There’s inept doctors all over the place. Check with a Generation Rescue, Rescue Angel to find a good doctor who knows how to use chelation or Lupron properly. These parents are experienced at curing autism.
[QUOTE=LavenderBlue]
You are not going to cure kids with the quackery advocated in the pathetically stupid link you pulled up.
Chelation therapy is not a treatment for autism, let alone a cure:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/autism-treatment/AN01488
This ridiculous idea has already killed a child:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9074208/
[/QUOTE]
Anti-vaccine folks in the US – and I guess elsewhere in the West; only heard about them in the US myself – appear very odd at best to Third World families who would kill to get their children vaccinated.
[QUOTE=foresam]
5 out of 6 who are vaccinated will be healthy. Of course, they would be more healthy if their immune systems got a workout by fighting off measles, mumps and rubella like my generation did. The MMR shot is idiocy at its’ finest.
You should not have to put your kid at risk by shooting mercury into him. The flu shot is still unsafe for that reason.
If your kid is autistic, he needs curing. People who preach against this belong in asylums.
You would be much better off taking medical advice about autism off a blog. The doctors who caused the autism epidemic refuse to admit their malpractice so bloggers are spreading the truth as best they can. I hope you now understand the situation but feel free to ask more questions.
[/QUOTE]
5 out of 6? Cite?
More healthy? Cite?
The mercury/immunisation/autism theory is still just that - a theory. Where are the peer reviewed papers? Where is the proof?
Bloggers are after readers - it’s a popularity contest. They take no oaths and have no burden of proof. I will not trust my child’s life to them. Why do you?
Those are my questions.
[QUOTE=foresam]
5 out of 6 who are vaccinated will be healthy. Of course, they would be more healthy if their immune systems got a workout by fighting off measles, mumps and rubella like my generation did. The MMR shot is idiocy at its’ finest.
You should not have to put your kid at risk by shooting mercury into him. The flu shot is still unsafe for that reason.
If your kid is autistic, he needs curing. People who preach against this belong in asylums.
You would be much better off taking medical advice about autism off a blog. The doctors who caused the autism epidemic refuse to admit their malpractice so bloggers are spreading the truth as best they can. I hope you now understand the situation but feel free to ask more questions.
[/QUOTE]
You are a gigantic boil on the ass of humanity. You are a vast maw of misinformation, a grand canyon of dumbassery, a spewing sewer of stupidity.
You know nothing and need to seriously never write on the internet until you learn something.
Children are not damaged from vaccination. Children are damaged from lack of access to vaccines.
Measles kills over three hundred thousand children each year. Even in the first world children run a one in five risk of hospitalization from Measles complications. This is dangerous and highly contagious illness.
Mumps will swell up a little girl’s glands and a little boy’s testicles. Mumps deafens and sterlizes children.
Rubella turns blinds, deafens and retards fetuses.
The only question one need ask of you is if you realize how pathetically little you know.
Many antivaxers have been just as dogmatic about thimerosal causing autism as foresam. Take for instance J.B. Handley, a San Francisco investment banker whose group “Generation Rescue” was at the forefront of the mercury militia. Handley (quoted in “Vaccine”) said: “What you know in your heart is that the explanation has to be simple, and it is. We have a generation of children suffering from mercury poisoning…There is no controversy.”
But now even Generation Rescue seems to be conceding in the face of steadily accumulating evidence that things aren’t quite so simple, and autism=mercury poisoning is no longer a tenable position. From the Generation Rescue website:
“We believe these neurological disorders (“NDs”) are environmental illnesses caused by an overload of heavy metals, live viruses, and bacteria…We believe the primary causes include the tripling of vaccines given to children in the last 15 years (mercury, aluminum and live viruses); maternal toxic load and prenatal vaccines; heavy metals like mercury in our air, water, and food; and the overuse of antibiotics.”
So while vaccination in general and mercury still get a workout as villains of the piece, we’re starting to see other things like “overuse of antibiotics”, “maternal toxic load” (whatever that is) and “live viruses” thrown into the mix.
Apparently it has not occurred to Handley and his crew that “live viruses” are exactly what many vaccines are protecting children from. In their view, viruses are harmless or even beneficial unless they are present in a deactivated state in vaccines.
I would hope that foresam and the many others who convince themselves of the “truth” by frequenting like-minded blogs and antivax websites will eventually change their dogmatic views on autism. Willingness to be open-minded and to take a hard look at the evidence is a difficult path, however.
This sounds a lot like antivax activist Barbara Fisher (quoted in “Vaccine”):
“How do we know that the human race was not supposed to have a bit of suffering from infectious disease at the beginning of life, in order to have an immune system that would be able to meet the challenge of viruses and bacteria along the line?”
Apart from not recognizing that the immune system is challenged by vaccination (without the accompaniment of potentially dangerous illness), it’s incredible to me that someone could so blithely wish “a bit of suffering” on children who could be protected from blindness, disability and even death by vaccination.
[QUOTE=foresam]
Hi Lavender Blue,
Is someone in your family autistic? If so, we now know how to cure some autism and it could benefit you to learn all you can about curing autism at the hating autism blog. I have helped cure several children with chelation. The only people who call it quackery are the quacks who injected too much mercury into infants and caused their autism. They have to take such cruel action towards children to deflect the lawsuits that will break them and land some of them in jail. Sometimes it helps to recognize the motivation of those who start the name calling to arrive at the truth.
Chelation never harmed anyone. Medical malpractice killed two children by using the wrong chelators. There’s inept doctors all over the place. Check with a Generation Rescue, Rescue Angel to find a good doctor who knows how to use chelation or Lupron properly. These parents are experienced at curing autism.
[/QUOTE]
If you have indeed pushed chelation therapy on desperate parents you are truly evil. Do you do it for the money or the joy of killing kids?
How vile that people like yourself criticize hard working doctors . . . and then steal money from parents and use dangerous methods on their poor children!
Go find a lunatic asylum and check yourself in. The world will be a better place for it.
1 out of 6 have some form of ASD which includes ADD, ADHD, etc.. I think the CDC said that.
More healthy, ask anyone over 40 if their kids get sick more often then they did.
Proof of autism causation can be found in many places. try www.generationrescue.org, Safe Minds, Verstraeten, Geier, Haley, Deth, etc
This blogger refers you to trustworthy sites where you can learn all the specifics about how to cure autism without paying some doctor a fortune. Insurance won’t pay to cure autism so it can be a big expense. It’s much cheaper to learn how to do it yourself.
Mainstream doctors wrote my kid off and told me to send him to an asylum. I thought curing him was a better option. It’s also better for you since, if I cure him, he won’t be a dole on the taxpayers for the next 70 years. It’s a win win.
Siam Sam, A case of chicken pox is a lot better than a lifetime of autism. Tell your officials you want vaccines without mercury. Autism really sucks.
[QUOTE=maggenpye]
5 out of 6? Cite?
More healthy? Cite?
The mercury/immunisation/autism theory is still just that - a theory. Where are the peer reviewed papers? Where is the proof?
Bloggers are after readers - it’s a popularity contest. They take no oaths and have no burden of proof. I will not trust my child’s life to them. Why do you?
Those are my questions.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=foresam]
Insurance won’t pay to cure autism so it can be a big expense. It’s much cheaper to learn how to do it yourself.
[/QUOTE]
Have fun in the deep end.
Lavender Blue,
I don’t understand your anger. I don’t ask for, or take any money for advising parents how to help autistic children. I just share my experience with chelation to help poisoned children.
I think you might have mixed up a few facts. Mumps only makes men sterile if they have it as adults. So, it might be a good shot to have if you’re at risk. get it when you’re about 12.
Jackmanni,
“…it’s incredible to me that someone could so blithely wish “a bit of suffering” on children who could be protected from blindness, disability and even death by vaccination.”
No pain, no gain.
[QUOTE=LavenderBlue]
If you have indeed pushed chelation therapy on desperate parents you are truly evil. Do you do it for the money or the joy of killing kids?
How vile that people like yourself criticize hard working doctors . . . and then steal money from parents and use dangerous methods on their poor children!
Go find a lunatic asylum and check yourself in. The world will be a better place for it.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=foresam]
1 out of 6 have some form of ASD which includes ADD, ADHD, etc.. I think the CDC said that.
More healthy, ask anyone over 40 if their kids get sick more often then they did.
.
[/QUOTE]
Try 6.5 in 1,000 - quite different than one in six…
Oh, and welcome to the Pit, I’m glad you joined us over here.
Dangerosa,
Nice to meet you.
The CDC doesn’t include ADD, etc in their numbers because they have no clue what they’re talking about. They also like to lie a lot to protect their pals in the drug companies. You have to take everything they say with a grain of salt.
[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Try 6.5 in 1,000 - quite different than one in six…
Oh, and welcome to the Pit, I’m glad you joined us over here.
[/QUOTE]