Only slowly, because this is really difficult for me to wrap my mind around.
My aunt or uncle’s children are my first cousins.
So their kids are my first cousins once removed? And their grandkids…twice removed?
What is a second cousin, then? Third? Fourth?
Thanks.
First cousins have grandparents in common.
Second cousins have great grandparents in common.
Third cousins have great-great-grandparents in common.
Once removed means that one of the pair is one generation down from the other.
I have to go there every time.
Yes.
Second cousins are the children (of the same generation) of first cousins. That is – they have the same Great-grandparents. Third, etc… keep on going down the generations.
A good explanation of the whole grab-bag can be found here
AIUI, every time there is another generation, it goes like this: first cousin, first cousin once removed, second cousin, second cousin once removed, third cousin, third cousin once removed… There is no “twice removed.”
This is according to family tree software that tells you how everyone in your whole family is related to you.
You are correct.
Second cousins are the children of first cousins.
Having said that, common folk usage of “second cousin” refers to the relationship between a person and the children (or parents) of a first cousin. Doesn’t fit into the genealogical definition of cousinry, but you have to keep it in mind when you hear someone use the term.
ETA: (And on preview, quadruple post.)
Easy way to remember.
There’s one common ancestral set of parents.
Once you’re past sibling level, the following is the rule:
Same level of descent = nth cousin, not at all removed. Two people with a set of grandparents in common = first cousins, not removed. Two people with a set of great-grandparents in common = second cousins, not removed.
Different levels of descent = nth cousin (mesured from the generation closer to the common ancestor), x times removed (number of generations between the two relatives). Grandchild and great-grandchild of the same pair of ancestors = first cousin, once removed. Grandchild and great-great-grandchild of that pair = first cousin, twice removed. Great-grandchild and great-great-grandchild of that pair = second cousins, once removed.
Edit: Man, I need to type more quickly.
Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Your first cousin’s kids and your kids are second cousins.
Your second cousin’s kids and your kids are third cousins.
Your second cousin’s kids and you are second cousins once removed.
See this just hurts my head, for some reason, trying to figure this out. Putting it in the abstract makes it difficult for me.
This is great, though, on Wikipedia:
If we share grandparents but have different parents we are first cousins
If we share great grandparents but have different grandparents we are second cousins
If we share great-great grandparents but have different great grandparents we are third cousins
If we share great-great-great-grandparents but have different great-great-grandparents we are fourth cousins
If we share great-great-great-great-grandparents but have different great-great-great-grandparents we are fifth cousins
Thanks, KTK.
Part of my confusion comes from the fact that in my family, in Hindi, we don’t use the word cousin - they are brothers or sisters, or, if you want to distinguish, it’s “Uncle Kuldeep’s kids”.
Oh, and thank you to everyone else, for the help.
Ok, so next question - why is it like this? It would make more sense if each succeeding generation was named by a new name - so first cousins give birth to second cousins who give birth to third cousins…
I love the English language but damn it can be confusing…and I was schooled here. I can’t imagine how tough it was for my parents.
I’m going to print out this whole thread. When my uncle died two weeks ago and I went to the funeral, every person who came up to me was a “cousin” of some sort. “I’m your grandmother’s brother’s such-and-such this-and-that,” he’d say. I’d turn to my husband, who’d patiently translate. “He’s your second cousin once removed,” he’d say. At the meal afterward, he spent the whole time drawing on paper napkins.
“OK, you’re over here. So if you and Ken are first cousins, and if you had any kids, then your kids and his kids would be . . .”
He was very popular.
I think that originally the English word “cousin” could refer to any relation. In Shakespeare’s Hamlet, King Claudius several times refers to Prince Hamlet as his “cousin” when Hamlet is his nephew and his stepson. Talking about first, second etc., cousins makes the deal more precise.
The English language is confusing? - I imagine that your parents already had a pretty good faculty for differentiating a variety of kinship terms: - Hindi, it seems, is even worse than English. A nightmare for any student of the language…
You know, upon reflection, this is not a useful comment. “Our language is confusing? Well…well… so’s yours!” I know my language can be confusing…which one is my language, though? Both of them. If English had different terms for the cousins, I think it might be easier…it makes it hard that they are all called “cousin”.
But then what would we call what we currently call second cousins twice removed?
Why can’t we just call them “Julia’s and Mickey’s” kids?
What I mean to say is, what use is this nomenclature? I’ve met very few people who are truly at home with this in their own families…they usually just say “here are my cousin’s kids” or whatever.
I had a lot of trouble with the cousins thing until someone here described the algorithm for it, and that made it crystal clear. If you have two people who are related, count the number of people between each of them and their most recent common ancestor. That gives you two numbers. The smaller of those numbers is the cousin number. The difference between the larger and the smaller numbers is the number of times removed.
For instance, consider me and my first cousin’s daughter. Our last common ancestor was my grandmother. There’s one person (my mom) between me and my grandmother, and two people between my first cousin’s daughter and my grandmother. Therefore, she is my first cousin (1 < 2) once removed (2 - 1 = 1).
I am sorry if my comment seemed offensive - it was certainly not meant to be. I used Hindi as an example not because it is “your language”, but because I am currently struggling to learn it, and because I find it interesting the more “distant” kinship terms seem to be considered close enough to warrant individual names. This is to me - a Danish speaker - terribly hard to learn.
Danish, by the way, has the same horrible “cousin” thing going on as English, and I am still very confused by it. I use the terms very rarely, but if I had more need for them, I would probably prefer a system where each successive link was given a new term.
Not sure what you’re getting confused about. My first cousin and I both have children (not with each other…). My children and his children are second cousins. Children of first cousins are second cousins (assuming no other kinks in the family tree), and so on.
I am his children’s “first cousin once removed” and my children are his ditto. When he has grandkids, these will be my first cousin twice removed, and they will be my son’s second cousin once removed, and my son’s child will be their third cousin.
Why can’t we just call it, “that stuff you put in your car that makes it go”? Then we wouldn’t know if you were talking about gasoline or diesel. The nomenclature makes it more precise, by describing more accurately what you’re talking about. It may not have much use to you or me, but I’m sure there are people for whom it does (royalty, genealogists, etc.)
FWIW, my family usually uses your method, making first cousins once removed into second cousins. I guess it’s just something that developed due to a need for it, and doesn’t really affect the layperson.
ETA**: Mal**, I think Ana means, why doesn’t my cousin give birth to my second cousin, who gives birth to my cousin, etc.