Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE?

[octopus]

@Miller

We can do both, actually. But speaking of “picking your poison,” do you really think it’s escaped anyone’s attention that the only time conservatives start caring about sexual assault is when the alleged perpetrators are Muslim? If this had been a bunch of white frat boys in Texas, you’d be dismissing it as a bunch of liberal outrage over boys doing what boys are supposed to do.

The contrast becomes even more stark when folks like you try to pretend to care about how gay people are treated.

People aren’t suppose to rape, in a civilized society , regardless of color.

[billfish678]

@T.M

In the U.K. we have a problem with white Eastern Europeans who have come to our country with the intent of committing criminal offences, one of the many reasons we want out of the EU. Because of freedom of movement we cannot refuse them entry. The problem is uncontrolled immigration a persons colour has nothing to do with it.

Just in case you might be misreading my post.

I was making fun of Miller’s post. Leave it to him to make this debate about gay rights and rapey Texan frat boys with a minimum of justification. Much less the mind reading aspect of his post.

[Stringbean]

@Miller

We can do both, actually. But speaking of “picking your poison,” do you really think it’s escaped anyone’s attention that the only time conservatives start caring about sexual assault is when the alleged perpetrators are Muslim? If this had been a bunch of white frat boys in Texas, you’d be dismissing it as a bunch of liberal outrage over boys doing what boys are supposed to do.

The contrast becomes even more stark when folks like you try to pretend to care about how gay people are treated.

I’ve accepted that sexual crimes are endemic to every society. “Boys will be boys” is not invalid when every society in history has boys doing bad things.

What occurred on NYE, however, was not endemic to German society but rather the society where the refugee assaulters came from. This is an example of a sexual crime that WAS preventable; all the more shocking that the left ignores this to rush to the defense of the refugees and to attack people who were worried about this sort of thing from the beginning.

[elucidator]

The splendid state of Jordan’s preparedness is happy news, and I do not presume to doubt it. However, other posters, less generous and open-minded than myself… might harbor doubts.

Perhaps some citation for this excellent news would be appropriate? Not for me, mind you, but for those who cling to their dark ignorance.

[Miller]

@Grim_Render

Almost as shocking as the sight of those people suddenly being the only one who cares about sexual assault or gay rights.

It’s only shocking if you believe them when they say they care about those issues.

Which nobody does.

Meanwhile, liberals who actually care about these issues are still not so inhuman as to think not agreeing with us on those issues is reason enough to abandon someone to die. A sexist, homophobic, theocratic dickhead still deserves to live, and if he won’t survive without our help, we have a moral obligation to extend that aid. Including his politics in that calculation is monstrous.

It also implicitly cedes the idea that our values are fragile and easily crushed, and thus need to be protected from wrong-thinking people. I do not have any such fear for my personal ideologies. I’m confident that, in the clash between modern liberal democracy, and oppressive, medieval theology, modern values will win out. Let the reactionaries immigrate here. Well change them. And if not them, their children.

[Una_Persson]

@Miller

We can do both, actually. But speaking of “picking your poison,” do you really think it’s escaped anyone’s attention that the only time conservatives start caring about sexual assault is when the alleged perpetrators are Muslim? If this had been a bunch of white frat boys in Texas, you’d be dismissing it as a bunch of liberal outrage over boys doing what boys are supposed to do.

The contrast becomes even more stark when folks like you try to pretend to care about how gay people are treated.

Today on FB I’ve been seeing “compassionate conservatives” who have advocated the outright criminalization of transgender persons for even existing fluttering their hands with horror over the attack on the two German transgender women. :rolleyes:

[Miller]

@billfish678

Yeah, you TOTALLY read my mind.

Didn’t take long.

[billfish678]

@Miller

Didn’t take long.

Ohh… epic burn…

[CarnalK]

@Miller

A sexist, homophobic, theocratic dickhead still deserves to live, and if he won’t survive without our help, we have a moral obligation to extend that aid. Including his politics in that calculation is monstrous.

It also implicitly cedes the idea that our values are fragile and easily crushed, and thus need to be protected from wrong-thinking people. I do not have any such fear for my personal ideologies. I’m confident that, in the clash between modern liberal democracy, and oppressive, medieval theology, modern values will win out. Let the reactionaries immigrate here. Well change them. And if not them, their children.

IMany an election thread I’ve seen liberals take comfort in the fact that the old bigots are dying off and losing their voting power. I wouldn’t be so cavalier about importing new ones.

[Miller]

@CarnalK

I wouldn’t be to confident. Many an election thread I’ve seen liberals take comfort that the old bigots are dying off and losing their voting power. I wouldn’t be so cavalier about importing new ones.

I’m not hugely concerned with a sudden upswing in Muslim support for the Republican Party.

Anyway, “might be a Republican” is still a really shitty reason not to help someone in need.

[billfish678]

@CarnalK

IMany an election thread I’ve seen liberals take comfort in the fact that the old bigots are dying off and losing their voting power. I wouldn’t be so cavalier about importing new ones.

I LOLed.

It is “funny”. The liberal left has embraced the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend…but they are too ###%#%#% to realize that said enemy of their enemy is their worst fricking nightmare by comparision.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Miller

… the only time conservatives start caring about sexual assault is when the alleged perpetrators are Muslim?..

The contrast becomes even more stark when folks like you try to pretend to care about how gay people are treated.

And then there are people like Douglas Murray who are gay and conservative. He finds it bizarre that the same people who come out in droves to condemn the Pope for opposing his right to marry another man are generally silent about the ideology currently being implemented in Syria, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, which demands his execution.

Why does the battle for gay rights stop at the borders of Islam?

…Isis have just carried out another ‘execution’ of someone accused of being gay. The victim – this time a man in his 50s – was thrown off the top floor of a seven-storey building. He appears to have survived the fall and so was stoned to death by the crowd on the ground.

What are right-thinking people to do about this? For most of them it isn’t easy because they don’t even know where to begin thinking about this and have been taught to be almost fearful about speaking about it.

I think we can probably say with some confidence that if an evangelical Christian group threw gays off towers in the Deep South, gay media outlets would currently be lambasting the Christian churches for a history of homophobia which had led to this pass. There would be demands for every prominent and obscure Christian pastor to condemn this brutal act. And they would. If a group of group of deeply extrovert Jews did a similar thing we could, I think, expect a similarly stern response. But the most that can be done with Isis is simply to report the facts and let them sit there, as though they come from nowhere. As if the traditions of throwing gays off buildings or collapsing walls on them and so on are probably just accretions of colonial times with no connection to any religious tradition. And so, anyway – back to minor stories about Tom Daley or Clare Balding.

…

…where are all these people who profess to care about gay rights? Their absence suggests to me that agreement has broadly been reached that religious sensitivities trump human rights, as long as the sensitivities in question are Islamic.

[Grim_Render]

@Miller

It’s only shocking if you believe them when they say they care about those issues.

Which nobody does.

I am not shocked that conservatives say they care about preventing sexual assault, or gay rights. I am shocked that they are the only ones.

As for the rest, assuming people don’t care about sexual assault because they are on the conservative side of the fence seems over the to to me. Ditto with gay rights. The whole technique of demonizing people with concerns about immigration as racists and xenophobes appear transparent and played-out.

[Miller]

@Grim_Render

As for the rest, assuming people don’t care about sexual assault because they are on the conservative side of the fence seems over the to to me. Ditto with gay rights. The whole technique of demonizing people with concerns about immigration as racists and xenophobes appear transparent and played-out.

It’s not an assumption, it’s a conclusion. The current crop of Republican presidential candidates includes at least one candidate who advocates that homosexuality be made illegal, and three of them are perfectly happy to share a stage with a preacher who openly advocates that gays be put to death. Where has the been the condemnation of this among conservatives? Where has the widespread conservative outrage at the Christian attempts to criminalize homosexuality in Africa? Why is it that they only register their disgust at this sort of rhetoric comes from a Muslim?

Because, of course, they don’t give a damn about gay rights, or how gay people are treated in Muslim countries, except in so far as it allows them to go after a different minority that they also hate.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Una_Persson

Today on FB I’ve been seeing “compassionate conservatives” who have advocated the outright criminalization of transgender persons for even existing

How does that even work? Citations for calling oneself a woman while possessing a penis? Or do they just oppose surgery and hormonal interventions with little or no proof of medical benefit?

fluttering their hands with horror over the attack on the two German transgender women. :rolleyes:

Unless they advocated or participated in physical attacks on transgender people, you have not discovered any hypocrisy whatsoever, let alone an eye-roll worthy example.

[elucidator]

If you can prove to me that you have no navel, I might be willing to consider that you have no hypocrisy.

[Grim_Render]

@Miller

It’s not an assumption, it’s a conclusion. The current crop of Republican presidential candidates includes at least one candidate who advocates that homosexuality be made illegal, and three of them are perfectly happy to share a stage with a preacher who openly advocates that gays be put to death. Where has the been the condemnation of this among conservatives? Where has the widespread conservative outrage at the Christian attempts to criminalize homosexuality in Africa? Why is it that they only register their disgust at this sort of rhetoric comes from a Muslim?

Seems a myopically small sample. Its almost like you’ve assumed everyone in the discussion hails from a single country. What do you think about the Norwegian conservatives position on gay rights? The Swedish rights attitude to equality? Perhaps the policies of the current UK conservatives on these issues are of interest?

FFS, you are in a discussion about events happening in another country and the attitudes surrounding that, while flinging around derogatory comments like everyone was on your particular political scale, and your republicans the measure of all men.

[billfish678]

@Grim_Render

FFS, you are in a discussion about events happening in another country and the attitudes surrounding that, while flinging around derogatory comments like everyone was on your particular political scale, and your republicans the measure of all men.

QFT.

And I don’t think I have ever used QFT before.

[Hank_Beecher]

American political tribalistic narcissism FTW.

[dropzone]

@T.M

The majority are single young males and they are not terrified and they probably out number genuine Syrian Refugees

So why were they not blocked from entering the EU? Gripe as some will about US immigration policy, we do a much better job of vetting asylum seekers and blocking the purely economic migrants, who are more likely than not single young males. Far from perfect, but better that, “You have a Mid East or North African accent of some sort? Welcome to the EU, you terrorized, downtrodden soul!”