Wait! Put down that baseball ball. Don’t start yelling yet. Give this some thought first. Please?
Here’s a fairly balanced fact checking report. I like their fact checking. Their conclusions? Not so much.
Amazon and other Internet Sales have damaged a lot of brick and mortar stores. Remember KMart in the 80’s and 90’s? Those wacky Ads with Penny Marshall? The Martha Stewart line of goods? The blue light specials? KMart was doing great. That changed as Amazon emerged with easy shopping and lower prices.
Our Malls look like ghost towns. They’re hurting and many are closing. Internet sales are killing them.
I respect honest competition in business. Capitalism works. The hardest working and most reliable businesses should succeed.
Amazon has always had the deck stacked in their favor. I’ve read for years they claim to operate at a loss. I assume for Income Tax reporting. True or not?
I know Amazon didn’t charge state sales tax until recently. They still don’t charge local city sales tax. Sales from 3rd party vendors don’t typically include sakes tax.
Trump says they have a sweetheart deal with the Post Office and rates. Is he right? How about the assertion it’s costing taxpayers money?
Isn’t it time to give brick & mortar stores a even opportunity? They are catching up. Offering web sites and order pickup. I ordered from Lowes a few days ago. They pulled all the items from the shelf and had the order waiting for me. There’s reserved parking for pickups.
Amazon should pay the same shipping as anybody else. Or bear the cost of running their own fleets of Trucks. Walmart has their own trucks supplying their stores. So does Kroger, Target and all the other brick & mortar stores. I see the trucks on the Interstates. Some may be leased and some are owned by the stores.
Any constructive thoughts? Other than how much you hate the President?
I don’t usually agree with Mr T either. He may be right on this one issue. He’s exaggerated some claims, but the basic facts are there.
I understand Amazon will pass these costs on to us, the consumer. But, I’m fine with that if their prices have been unreasonably low and are undercutting local businesses. That means a loss in local jobs. Which then hurts local economies.
The problem at root is that Trump isn’t attacking Amazon because he understands or cares in the slightest about economics. He is attacking Amazon because the owner (Jeff Bezos) also owns the washington post, which has done a lot of investigative journalism into Trump and has made his life harder.
Trump is trying to harm businesses (like Amazon) because those businesses have ties to media outlets that are making factual reports that harm his reputation, open him up to criminal charges and hurt the republican party (the Roy Moore sex scandals were broken by the WP for example). That is the issue. The whole ‘war on Amazon.com’ that Trump is pushing is just a proxy for his war on the Washington Post, and the government trying to punish a business because that business participates in the free press is a violation of the first amendment.
It is perfectly ordinary to give a big customer a discount in order to keep their loyalty and encourage them to use you. What I’m not sure about, however, is whether Amazon would have much choice if the USPS said they weren’t going to give them a special discount any more. I would think the USPS is still the best way to get something delivered to any door in the country, considering that FedEx and UPS routinely deliver packages to the USPS office closest the destination for many of their packages instead of sending a truck around to each location. Why does the USPS need to give them a sweetheart deal to maintain their business? It sounds simply like poor negotiating by the USPS; while they love getting all the competitive business from Amazon, I don’t know why they wouldn’t be in a position of more power when it comes to discounts. Of course, we common Americans have no idea what the magnitude of the discount is, so it might be nothing to get worked up over and may in fact only be a discount in terms of easier billing.
But, Amazon has been the elephant in the room for too long. Ignored by our press. I wasn’t aware of the postal discount until the past week.
Now we’re talking about it.
I like Amazon and will continue buying from there. I also support local business and the jobs they create for my friends and neighbors. I make a point to buy locally unless I need a wide selection of choices. I like seeing thirty different shower curtains on Amazon. Light bulbs? Whatever my store sells is fine.
The other disturbing issue with Amazon is labor relations.
That has been reported and it’s pretty bad. That type of environment isn’t healthy or sustainable. Labor will eventually organize and demand changes.
They aren’t employing enough people. Amazon expects fewer employees to work harder and fill the gap. It’s another tactic to artificially keep prices low. Driving brick & mortar stores out of business.
For the moment. With what Amazon is doing in enhancing their sortation center network and doing their own deliveries a lot of their business has moved beyond the USPS in the last year and predictions are that they could - maybe - totally break out on their own in five more years. Bezos is a control freak and I believe he would like total control from order to delivery so --------- lets say I won’t be surprised.
An interesting read for folks interested in Amazon is “The Anything Store”
Its dated but its interesting how many things the author predicted have come true.
Amazon was founded in November, 1994.
Previous to 1990, Kmart was one the largest retailers in the US. In late 1990, it was passed up by Walmart. The Blue Light Special was removed in 1991. They peaked in 1992, but not keeping up with the times, Walmart and Target became their major competitors. In early 1994, they announced plans to close about 150 stores. In November, they put the number 110.
If I have my dates right, so far this is all before Amazon even existed. Keep in mind for quite a while after they showed up, they primarily sold books. Not really a threat to anyone other than Borders and Barnes and Noble.
It’s not entirely due to internet sales, though I’m sure a lot of it is. It’s partially due to losing anchor stores. It’s partially due to big box stores showing up. It’s partially due to people not wanting to go to malls where [physical] safety is a concern and on top of all that, people just don’t like malls as much as they used to. Why go spend a half hour parking, finding your store and then walking all the way back to your car when you can get, more or less, the same stuff and a standalone store?
You’ll have to elaborate on what you mean by they have the deck stacked in their favor, I’m not clear on that. As for operating at a loss, they show a negative bottom line, but they’re putting all that money back into the business to build it.
Keeping in mind that sales tax is collected from the consumer and passed to the government, so it’s not income (in fact, it’s a liability), I’m not sure what difference this makes. Also, every (most?) retailers were allowed this same loophole. Look at how many websites say "Sales tax applicable if shipped to [business’ home state]. That’s nothing new, it’s just getting Trump’s attention because they’re so big.
Also, Amazon now charges and remits sales tax in every state that requires it.
That’s been proven wrong on nearly every website since he tweeted it. They get the bulk mail rate, the contract, by law, ‘must be profitable’ and the USPS has the option to reevaluate it each year. If they’re losing money on each package delivered, that’s not Amazon’s fault. If you found out the grocery store is losing money on your favorite item, would you consider that you’re problem. No, you didn’t set the price, they decided how much to charge and you decided you were okay with that.
Also, I don’t think I’ve heard this mentioned, but keep in mind that the USPS was considering not delivering Saturdays any more in order to save money. With Amazon, they’ve added Sunday to their delivery schedule.
Isn’t it time? What about the past 150 years?
They do.
They do.
But also, if you think they should be required to bear the cost of delivering items, with their own trucks, where does that stop? Should all businesses be banned from using the post office? What about regular people? Next time you want to mail something across the country, hop in your car and take it there?
Just to be clear, this is about home delivery, not B2B.
But the facts, as Trump stated them, are incorrect. Your own link even says the same.
You should look into how many people have lost jobs vs how many people Amazon has hired.
Also, that video was summed up by saying Amazon is doing the most damage to brick and mortar stores because they have terrible customer service and Amazon has Amazing customer service.
Also, regarding your Lowes statement about picking up items you’ve ordered. I’ve done that at a few stores, but hell, Amazon has same day delivery on a ton of stuff now. Just yesterday, Easter Sunday, I ordered stuff in the morning and it was on my doorstep by 3:00 or so.
TLDR, Kmarts decline was mostly their fault, and a little bit other, bigger and better Big Box stores, but I fail to see how it’s Amazon’s fault.
Agree with who?
Uhh, hardly a day goes by with out something in the media (good or bad) about Amazon.
Like Walmart?
Do you know that for sure or did you make it up? As I’ve said in the past, businesses don’t exist purely to give people jobs. Profit isn’t a bad word.
The linked New Times Article reports employees work long hours at Amazon with limited breaks. It’s known as a tough place to work. There’s been several articles about worker stress and exhaustion at Amazon.
That typically means understaffing. I can work an 8 hour day if the shared work is getting done by other staff. I work longer hours if we’re short handed. (that’s happened a couple times in my career).
Amazon seems to deliberately understaff. I assume to keep costs down and prices artificially low.
JoeyP makes a good point that Walmart isn’t a great place to work either. Low pay and demanding hours.
Kmart and malls were already declining before Amazon got big. If you want to pick a villain, blame Walmart.
But more realistically, blame the companies that went under. Economies change. You have to change with them.
No, Amazon didn’t get any favors. They just had a better business model. They put most of the money they were making back into the business.
You might have a valid point here. But Trump doesn’t. Sales taxes are enacted by the states and the states should work out an arrangement between them to tax online sales. But it’s no concern of the President’s.
I’m glad some people like working at Amazon. I was beginning to feel guilty for shopping there. Some of the news reports this past Christmas are pretty grim. Holiday orders were intense.
This thread seems to have lost focus. You are enumerating all kinds of things you don’t like about Amazon, a lot of which have some truth to them: they’re becoming a large player, the growth of internet commerce is having negative impacts on brick and mortar businesses, etc. I share some of your concerns, and you can choose not to shop at Amazon all you want.
But that’s not what this thread was originally about. This thread was about Trump’s claims about Amazon. He’s made two basic, factually evaluatable claims. First, they’re getting an unfair advantage on taxes. This is mostly false and out-of-date. While Amazon, and all internet retailers, were able to take advantage of gaps in states’ tax laws and collection schemes, they no longer do. And they collect local taxes too, though there are disputes around which locality should collect. But that’s Amazon-the-merchant. Amazon-the-marketplace does not collect sales taxes on behalf of merchants selling on their site. Should they? I think so, but Amazon’s position here is reasonable: no other marketplace provider is expected to collect sales taxes, and it’s reasonable to require states to change laws if they want their laws to work differently.
Second, Trump is claiming that they’re getting a sweetheart deal from USPS. No one has ever provided a fact-based argument to suggest that this is actually true. Not to mention how bizarre his complaint about ‘Amazon using the USPS as a delivery boy’ is - that’s kind of what they’re for.
While there is possibly something for the experience of going to a mom-and-pop store, there’s really not anything great about going to a big-box store over online, other than possibly how quickly you can get the item. And Amazon has done a lot to get that down.
I don’t think doing anything to Amazon would change any of this. Online shopping is superior in most ways, and so is here to stay. It’s like thinking that you can keep blue-collar jobs in the country. When there is a technologically superior alternative, you just can’t win against it forever.
Amazon’s deal with the Postal Service is discussed in the fact checking video from MSNBC. They said it gets renegotiated annually. Maybe the next contract will up the prices a little?
Trump’s love of hyperbole gets him in trouble. There is a kernel of truth in what he’s saying. He didn’t need to bash Amazon. It’s a good company and offers a wide choice in merchandise with fast shipping.
I hope this leads to some small changes in regulations. Amazon has the upper hand over brick & mortar business. I just want to see a competitive battle.
Brick & mortar business have to modernize and change to survive. Maybe they can modernize and survive. If, Amazon loses a few of their loopholes.
Retail, in general, is a rough job during the holiday season. My mother worked at a department store (Younkers, a Bon Ton-owned chain) for a number of years; she loved the job for 11 months out of the year, and hated it from Black Friday through Christmas. Why would an internet retailer be any different?
Also, in case earlier posts didn’t make it clear: the USPS is not funded by taxpayers. At ALL. It hasn’t been since the early 70s; while it operates under Congressional oversight, it’s an independent agency, and mandated to pay its own way. Its operating budget is solely funded by the fees it charges.
And, as far as Amazon getting discounted deals – they’re one of the USPS’s biggest customers. Businesses provide volume discounts for their biggest customers on a regular basis. Why should this be any different?
I didn’t get worried until reports that Walmart is bleeding. They just closed some Sams Clubs a few weeks ago. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1026816001
That corporate giant seemed invincible a few years ago. Walmart wiped out a bunch of family owned businesses on main street. I see Walmart as the canary in the coal mine.
If Walmart can’t survive, then the smaller chains like Target, CostCo, BJ’s are SOL.
Don’t start yelling yet. Give this some thought first. Please?