As we saw tonight, Joe Wilson certainly thinks it does. So does Cardinal:
So let’s hash this out right now. Does the bill do so, or does it not?
Well there’s a section of the bill titled “Coverage Not Extended to Illegal Aliens” (or some words close to that), so yeah, I could see how that could be mis-construed by evil, lying, sociopathic, scumbag, morons.
Source: Politifact
Correct. Section 246 is entitled “Sec. 246. No Federal payment for undocumented aliens.”
I suspect the suspicion around whether or not illegal aliens will be covered is based on a suspicion that their illegal status will not be uncovered. The suspicion is that it is highly unlikely some sort of initiative to out their undocumented status in order to deny healthcare will suddenly come to be. There does not seem to be any enthusiasm for that now.
Much of the current debate swirling around “undocumented” aliens is based on a complaint about what actually happens and not what the law says. What the law says is that there is a proper procedure to immigrate into the US and work and live here. What actually happens is that millions of people ignore the law–illegal immigrants and their employers both.
A healthcare bill can say one thing on its face: “Undocumented aliens have no access to any of these benefits” and produce quite another thing in practice. If, in practice, we cannot or will not control access of undocumented aliens to employment, education, driver’s licenses, or any of a number of other societal benefits, the notion that we’ll block their access to healthcare is a farce.
In all my years of taking care of patients who presented to the ED, I never once asked for or considered asking for, a citizenship status. We just took care of the patient.
I’d make a large wager, if such a thing were possible, that any healthcare bill passed by this congress and this president, will extend an extraordinary amount of healthcare toward illegal immigrants. We already do. There will be the usual brouhaha on the part of anti-illegals about this squandering of resources on illegals, and the usual passionate defenses on the part of pro-illegals, but the money will, in fact be spent, and the benefits will, in fact, be extended to the undocumented aliens.
Ask yourself an easy question: What have we done so far? The core priniciple driving this legislation is healthcare for all. The average tenor of the current governement is that we don’t discriminate–even between citizens and non-citizens, or “documented” and “undocumented.”
My understanding was that Illegal aliens could purchase insurance since the undocumented status could not be used ot turn them away, BUT that they would not be entitled to federal credits in order to do so.
I could be wrong, in fact, I probably am, so I would appreciate some clarification on that point. If it does work that way, good. These people would work their asses off harder than they already do in order to pay into the system: we wouldn’t have to foot the bill for last minute emergency room visits and these people wouldn’t be facing possible death or crippling problems because of being terrified of having to go to the hospital and interacting with officials.
If Kinthalis is right, and I expect so, are people still going to be unhappy about illegal immigrants being “covered”?
Actually, that was the exact claim put forth on C-Span right after the speech: a Republican congressman was asked about the claim in question, and he replied that they’d pressed for an enforcement rider – not just saying illegals wouldn’t get care, but checking the citizenship so illegals wouldn’t get care. Since that provision was rejected, he argued, the guy who yelled at Obama was (a) at worst partly correct, and (b) taken as a whole, correct.
I assume this means that emergency rooms will still provide services to illegal aliens, as they now do. How will those be paid for under Obamacare?
I thought one of the rationales is that preventative service was going to reduce demand for emergency care. It would seem that this will not be the case for illegals.
Regards,
Shodan
No matter how you slice it, if an “illegal alien” (I use quotes because the phrase just sounds so McCarthyish but I don’t have a better one) has a burst appendix or something like it, he’s going to get care. Probably the hospital will have to eat the bill and just drive up costs for everybody else. As I see it, the question of whether illegals are included is quite pointless, just another way that the modern GOP exploits the latent racism in its dwindling base.
Good point, BobLibDem.
Then some proportion of the cost of treating illegal aliens will have to be included in the premiums for the public option Obama wants. Therefore, indirectly, care for illegal aliens is included in Obamacare.
Regards,
Shodan
My understanding is that the individual mandate provisions at issue apply to “resident aliens,” whether documented or not. So, undocumented aliens will be obliged to purchase insurance or face a fine, although it’s not clear how that would be enforced. Presumably any undocumented alien buying insurance coverage would be covered, although that coverage might be voidable if the alien uses a false SSN or some such to sign up.
Emergency care for all is and has been mandated by other laws that will not change. We’ve always paid for that and will continue to do so.
Well, under any system, the costs of those who can’t pay will be borne by everybody else. That’s the nature of insurance. There may be inefficiencies in the way we pay for emergency care now, but true emergencies will not go away. Expanding coverage is a moral issue, not a question of cost savings.
But as stated in this thread, none of the Democratic bills at issue offer coverage for illegal immigrants. You and I may disagree with that position, but there definitely seems to be a point of bipartisan consensus that such coverage is inappropriate.
So what’s your solution? Let 'em die if they can’t produce a green card?
No, toss them back over the fence.
It’s not like they’re working for minimum or less doing jobs Americans won’t do, for Americans.
It’s important for the nations children to see in practice the values of decency and common humanity.
No, stop them from illegally entering the country, and penalize those who employ them.
Regards,
Shodan
Just as it is today. All Obamacare would do is maintain health care availability that currently exists.
Completely false.
Then we are agreed - Obamacare does cover illegal aliens, indirectly.
Regards,
Shodan