Repeating this doesn’t make it any more logical. No illegal immigrants will receive subsidies. The number of people getting ER care now without insurance will be unchanged. In fact, if rates go down thanks to savings or a public option, the uncovered costs may decrease if illegals can now afford care (without subsidies.) Or do you want to prevent an illegal alien from buying insurance and paying full price? Where you get unlimited access to healthcare is beyond me.
Wrong. It changes nothing in the way that these people are dealt with now, as far as actual care goes.
Nope; that’s incorrect. As I showed, under HR 3200 the Health Commissioner will be responsible for setting up a “litmus test” for who can access insurance. The fact that some people may be treated without insurance is no different than the way it is today, except that today a greater number of people are without insurance, thus the number of people recieving care “outside the system” is greater today than it would be with the passage of HR 3200.
As has been shown repeatedly, this is incorrect.
No, I think we are going in circles because the answer changes based upon the ever moving question.
You guys might want to get together, figure out the question and then I’ll take the time to answer it instead of going into this circular argument we’ve got going now.
Can I site my own company? 
I don’t know who “you guys” are, but I was asking a question. In case you missed it, I’ll paste what I typed last time. How do you want to address the issue of people who show up with head wounds, but can’t cough up a birth certificate? And in case you intend to start nitpicking (never know around here), I don’t mean strictly a literal birth certificate, I mean proof of legal residency.
This is the problem that you guys keep coming back to. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID TO NOT TREAT THESE GUYS. NOT SHODAN AND NOT ME.
The argument isn’t Don’t treat the illegal aliens, it’s the fact that people are pointing to the DIRECT LANGUAGE OF THE BILL as it says THEY aren’t going to treat them.
THIS IS A BALD FACED LIE, regardless of how it is currently.
Sorry for the caps but this has been explained at least once BY ME, in this thread already.
The question then evolved into, well what would you have us do. My answer was deterrence or amnesty. Either way helps cut the costs of this staggering idea for UHC. The question to you guys is why the hell would you NOT want it as cheap as possible?
Read the post right below yours and it answers that question. I apologize for lumping ‘you guys’.
I think there are 3 basic levels of coverage in question and they’re getting muddled together under one word.
-
“ER coverage” - when someone shows up with a gaping head wound, or heart attack, they are cared for until it is safe for them to be discharged. Everybody gets this already, and I nobody is going to require proof of citizenship before you can tap into this level of service, not Obama, not the Republicans, not anybody. If this is what you (general you) are complaining about, there’s no reason to continue discussing it.
-
“regular coverage” - you pay full boat for your insurance/health care. I suppose one could attach immigration requirements to this, but there’s no particular reason to. There is no health care related purpose to an immigration check, it’s just a place you can ferret out illegal immigrants. If you complain about this, you’re complaining that we are not using our health care system as a way of finding illegal immigrants.
-
“Obamacare coverage” - the government picks up the tab (or part of the tab) for your insurance. This is specifically noted in the health care legislation, illegal immigrants are not allowed to receive government funding, which they have to apply for and get approval for. While I might think that funding their coverage is the humane and decent thing to do, I also understand that doing so could significantly affect our immigration issues, and I don’t want to go there, and neither does Obama.
Let me ask you guys one thing:
I am guessing that currently hospitals procedure costs have a ‘built in’ countermeasure for handling those uninsured who come into the ER. If the government controls the pricing, it is no longer possible for the hospital to cover those expenditures. Who gets screwed when the illegals rush to the ER now?
Is the government going to cover those costs or force the hospitals out of business?
That’s well said.
Have to run in a sec so no time to check but pretty sure the bill says nothing of who will get treated. It says it will not allow federal assistance in paying for insurance for illegal aliens.
That of course is supposed to appease the right wing who really hates illegal aliens but the fact remains illegal aliens will still get wheeled into the ER and still get care as they do today and we will all still pay for it.
So people then ask the question that in order to avoid paying for illegal aliens’ medical care, at all, you need to find a way to deny care to them. Anything else and you are really just shoving the expenses around from one place to another and is a fools shell game.
Conversely, when an American citizen needs a hip replacement or an organ transplant, but the resources which should have gone for his care went to an illegal immigrant instead, are you just going to say, “Tough luck, granny, you’re a racist”?
Deterrence or Amnesty (with checks in place to ensure the payment of taxes)
Both options provide a financial boon to the failing health care in America (regardless of how it gets handled)
Well, no of course not. If it is a ‘he’ then he is not ‘Granny’. What are you going to say to him if he needs the hip replacement and the money went to Newt Gingrich instead? The rich white Republicans still vastly outnumber the undocumented workers in this country and will still be a bigger drain in any Healthcare system as they tend to get better care and live longer.
Outnumber? Really?
Now if you want to put forth that the aging rich folks need/receive better care, we might have a stance to argue.
However, the one you put forth is laughable.
12 million rich white folks is quite a lot.
No matter how you slice it, resources given to illegal immigrants can’t be given to citizens. Somewhere along the line, some government bureaucrat will have to make the decision to give resources to people who have no legal or moral right to be here instead of American citizens. I suspect the vast majority of them will not be interested in your lame justifications.
And I suspect your definition of “rich white Republican” is anybody who’s white, isn’t poor, and doesn’t think much of Obama.
Seven Falsehoods About Health Care - FactCheck.org According to fact check, no ,they are not . Here are the myths of health care dealt with by fact check.
Any thread that starts with what Wilson says ,is in trouble at the start.
Thank you, Cheesesteak, for delineating this.
Now, Kearsen et al, can you please clarify which of these 3 items you are angry about? Is it (1) Emergency-only uninsured coverage (2) Regular, full-pay insurance coverage or (3) “Obamacare”, where the govt. is picking up part/much of the tab for your insurance coverage?
To clarify, I’m not angry about any of them.
I was merely answering a question put forth.
The argument was whether or not illegal immigrants would get coverage. The clear and concise answer was “yes they would, as it is currently”
My hypothesis was that under my ‘proposed solution’ the illegal alien’s coverage would be moot as they wouldn’t be over here illegally. (See, how that also helps with all 3 scenarios)
Gar! But the plan does not cover illegal immigrants. People who are not legal residents of the US are not eligible for the government option insurance, or affordability credits. What is *completely separate *from the plan is that we are not going to let people bleed to death on the emergency room floor.