Your wife is right here. Do you know why cyclists (especially kids) should walk their bikes across ANY street or intersection? Because when you’re on a bike you come out too fast for drivers to see and react to. Bikes need to be on the road where drivers expect them acting like vehicles, or if they are on the sidewalk or crosswalks where drivers don’t expect them, they need to be acting like pedestrians for their own safety.
I see a lot of cyclists in Calgary, and I see very few acting responsibly. They seem to want all the privileges of being vehicles with none of the responsibilities, and then they want all the convenience of being pedestrians when they have absolutely no business riding their bikes on the sidewalks (and I don’t think I have EVER seen a cyclist walking his bike on the sidewalk; I do, however, see bike couriers driving recklessly on crowded sidewalks every single day).
Yes, it’s terrible that vehicles kill cyclists sometimes, and drivers don’t respect cyclists and increase their danger, but any cyclist who thinks that cyclists had no part in creating this atmosphere of mutual hatred is kidding themselves.
Well, thanks for at least explaining why cyclists don’t like them, since it was completely baffling to me why so many bikers would block essentially shoulderless, narrow lanes of traffic rather than ride on a bike lane. I think I would stick with the bike path, but at least now those bikers aren’t just being obdurate.
I’ve biked too, and I’m a frequent pedestrian, and I’ve no love for drivers either. Nobody thinks it’s your “turn” at a stop sign when you’re a pedestrian, and I get really sick of the way cars “gun it” and roar past you after they had to wait for you, even when you jogged across.
I think a consistent chorus of “Get the fuck out of the bike lane, dumbass” is in order here.
Not unless it’s going down a really big hill. If cyclists could do the speed limit, then this whole argument would be moot. But bikes are slower than other traffic, and that’s why we’re gathered here today in the Pit.
There’s a saying about driving, “It’s better to be predictable than nice.” I think this rings true here. If you’re (“you” meaning cyclists in general) gonna ride in a traffic lane, ride in a traffic lane. If you’re gonna stick to the bike lane, stick to the bike lane. But if every biker has their own opinion of where they should ride, then how could motorists possibly know what to expect or how to react?
Oops. I think you misunderstood. The paths (trails, etc.) are designed to be used by all 3. And a cyclist simply can’t ride as fast as they’d probably like on the path, since they have to yield to the other 2.
And that’s exactly what I meant by ‘doing the speed limit.’ On a bike path, going down a hill, a cyclist is limited to 15 mph. BORING. On the road they can get up to 30 or higher.
It is true, which is why eye contact, hand signals, and obeying the traffic laws are very important.
There are different times to be in different areas. I can ride in the bike lane up until say, I need to make a left hand turn, or something like that. Then I have to ride in traffic, just like a car.
Also, on a narrow road, a cyclist needs to ‘stand ground.’ By trying to get as near the edge of the road as possible, they’re just setting up the driver to try and pass them. Particularly dangerous if there is oncoming traffic and simply not enough room for all 3. Better to push out into the road a little to force the driver to wait until it is clear to get around.
Ah, yes… I assumed we were still talking about bike lanes in the street. It should’ve occurred to me that not even Santa Rosa has horses walking down the street anymore.
Better yet, I teach them to stop at stop signs, pause at other intersections, and not proceed until it is safe to do so. A kid can cross the street astride safely, legally, and quickly if she follows a few simple rules and assumes every driver is an idiot who will kill them given half a chance.
I repeated them all because they are at the core of bike (and car and motorcycle and pedestrian) safety and emphasized the one because it is VITALLY important when dealing with people half asleep in large vehicles. Establish eye contact, assume he STILL doesn’t see you, and act as if you are sure he will do something stupid and dangerous. Eye contact, though seemingly superfluous if the other two are true, gives the driver credit for not being the half-asleep moron you know he is and, if he notices you, wakes him from his reverie, establishes you as a human with a lawyer, and tells him you are probably not going to do something stupid. However, if he is as good a driver as you are a rider he will still assume you don’t see him and act as if you will do something stupid and dangerous.
This is called “defensive driving” and would be more memorable when it is taught in Drivers Ed if the teacher used non-PC terms like “stupid,” “idiot,” and “moron,” but “Watch out for the other guy” will do in a pinch.
What are you training for on city streets? You can’t can’t keep up your pace for more than a few blocks because of stop signs and traffic lights. You aren’t going to tell me, like many runners have, that traffic signs and signals don’t apply to you because they interrupt your pace and that drivers, bicyclists, and pedestrians better watch out for you because your pace is more important than your safety, are you? :dubious:
There’s bike paths in cities, in the counties. You use them to get to your training routes. Sometimes you would have to use them AS your training routes.
There’s one bike path in Baltimore that just goes around this little lake. It’s actually useful for training.
In general, I’d rather have a free-flowing road than a bike path, whether I’m training or not.
I suppose it doesn’t really matter what you teach your (generic “your”, not yours specifically) kids, because as soon as they’re out of view of parents they just tear-ass across the streets on their bikes like all the kids in my neighbourhood do.
In city streets, with moderate traffic, I certainly am keeping the pace of traffic. If this is the speed limit I can’t say, since I gave away my bike computer years ago. I have little doubt that I can keep a 25mph pace, which is the local speed limit
Nevertheless, my pacing is slightly different than cars. This means that many a jack-off driver is willing to kill me to gain nothing. Its amazing just how much someone will try to squeeze you out.
Bike lanes are nice under some circumstances. But let’s be real: Far too much crap ends up in them, they are often in the dooring zone, cars stop in them for fun, BMW’s drift into them, hoping they’ll magically turn into a car-sized lane just for them.
Wonder lanes like the one picture in this thread (note not SDMB) are all too common.
Bike paths? Don’t make me laugh. I have yet to see one built that wasn’t a transportation disaster. Don’t get me wrong, some would be fine for a light outing with the kids. But I am going somewhere, so blind corners and other fun things are not on my agenda. Multi-Use paths are even worse.
I’ve said it before: For a variety of reasons, drivers have delayed me twice as much as I have ever delayed them. And the antics that delay other drivers? Hoo-boy. I swear nobody knows where the right side of their car is any more.
I think I’ve seen the inauguration of the “No True Cyclist” fallacy in this thread.
Anyway, this morning as I was obediently waiting on my mo’bike at the red light, the cyclist I’d passed three hundred yards before came pissing past me and insinuated himself into the slowish-moving crossing stream of traffic (right to left: at least that’s the safer option at an English T-junction). This meant trying to fit into a gap that was barely there behind a bus.
The bus driver, probably unaware that a kamikaze cyclist was trying to slipstream, and having bigger fish to fry in any case, braked, probably because two lanes of traffic merge into one round about here, and the No True Cyclist pulled a lovely stoppie which, however, did not prevent him from smearing himself all over the back of the bus.
Fortunately the following car driver read the whole situ rather better, and didn’t run over the upturned bicycle nor compound the rider’s woes; and even more fortunately, the car driver’s stopping didn’t precipitate a multi-vehicle shunt all account of one dickhead sorta-cyclist.
Laugh? I nearly shat, at any rate once I saw the cyclist was getting up again, and I said in my helmet, “You fucking deserved that, sunshine”.
Mine don’t. Mine are well behaved and react appropriately to scare tactics (see my “all drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians are morons out to kill you” post).
One of the beauties of the Rails to Trails program is that there are few turns sharper than a train could take so there are no blind turns. And the people on them are generally polite and follow the rules. To pass a ding of your bell and a “Passing on the left” are all that are needed. You don’t even have to slow down.
Yeah, a ding of the bell and a “Passing on your left” would be great. Too bad no Calgarian biker would be caught dead doing either. And speed limits on the congested multi-use paths - those are for pussies.
I should say, in case it hasn’t been apparent already, I hate cyclists when I’m a driver, and I hate them when I’m a pedestrian on the multi-use paths and sidewalks in Calgary. It took me many years and many incidents to develop this hatred of them. I think it is justified.
What I conclude from all of this is that there is no place in the transportation ecosystem for bicycles. Roads? Out on account of the asshole drivers. Sidewalks? Nope, illegal, plus those damned pedestrians. Bike paths? Hell’s very own front door. People want to fixate on bicycling’s advantages, but no one should forget how flat-out dangerous the things are. After all, you’re riding at 15 or 20 miles an hour protected by nothing more substantial than your epidermis. Is it any wonder that injury is incredibly common?
All I can say is, thank God those Segue things never caught on. Think what the vituperation would be like if we had to have the Segueists in the argument as well.
You might be posting sarcastically, Sal, but I’ve basically come to the same conclusion. It has to be bikes OR cars, not both. I wouldn’t mind if we all switched to bikes (well, I would, but I would understand the reasons), but that ain’t gonna happen till the oil’s all gone.
I have not used a bike path, MUT, or rail to trail in years. Barring me walking my bike (with shredded rear tire) down a path a couple of days to get a new tire. (hardly counts.
Years ago when I did use the trail I tried to do the “On your left” thing, but under many circumstances to be heard I made myself hoarse. It was mostly futile, since so many had headphones in anyway. I confess I gave up after a while. That was when I realised the limitation of the trail. It was too much like riding on a sidewalk.
A couple of months ago, someone screamed at me that I should “get on the bike path” (This driver seemed to think that two lanes in very light traffic were not enough for him). I was confused since there was no bike path anywhere neaby. When I asked him about this he pointed down towards the river, which was about 6 blocks away. I could only laugh and be amused that some call me arrogant for thinking I “own the road” (translation: I use the road)
I don’t take responsibility for the misdeeds of other cyclists, in turn I do not lay the blame for bad incidents with drivers at the feet of all other drivers. But when I am called arrogant for taking the lane, or outright told I belong off the road, it does piss me off. Arrogance is believing that you have the absolute right to decide who gets to use something and who doesn’t.
The prevaliling ‘wisdom’ is that since some bicyclists misbehave, then that is what leads to drivers committing acts against cylists, and therefore it comes back to all cyclists. The idea is that we should all bear the brunt of responsibility for everyone on two wheels with two pedals.
In fact, this is simply blaming the victim to excuse vehement actions of some drivers. I have had several incidents with cars and there is no action I took, in fact, no action any cyclist or group of cylists could have made that would balance the scale for what took place. Seeing a bad rider on the road doesn’t mean you get to go out and throw objects at the next cylist you see. But some folks are basiclly saying just that.
OK rant over for now. Sorry, dropzone most of my post was not really about you comments.
On the road they can get up to 30 or higher.