You mean like the ones I posted above? Clearly cyclists are being enough of a problem so that the police are cracking down on them and fining them. And clearly they’re being enough of a problem that just ONE issue of a Washington DC column contained numerous complaints against them.
And once AGAIN, I am not just a pedestrian, I also ride a bike. Are you trying to say that there are NO cyclists who could possibly be in the wrong? Obviously if you have many of your own countrymen complaining, and complaints are rampant enough to motivate the Police in NYC, then it’s not just in the imaginations of a remote few pedestrians.
So quite obviously there is a strong basis for the so-called “whining” of both the UK pedestrians and the American ones regarding those cyclists who ARE bad riders.
No, not true. Just ONE point of data from ONE source, the UK suggests it’s not. Not “the data”.
Are you suggesting that a newspaper eport or a cite that isn’t from soem sort of government source (lord KNOWS the government would never ever twist statistics, or lie to us now would they?), is then not true?
I’ve been taking an informal poll this week, and not one single biker has used his bell or said “On your left” while passing me so far. Of course, I haven’t seen a lot of bikers this week for some reason, but we’re still batting 1000 here.
Here’s an interesting scenario for you, from my drive this morning. I parked my car, and was about to get out, when a biker rode past my door. I would have nailed her if I hadn’t checked my mirror before opening the door. I would have been totally in the wrong if I had opened the door on her, but what kind of biker rides right beside a car with an occupant who is obviously about to get out? I have the legal obligation to look before opening the door and not hit her, but she has the good judgement obligation to not put herself in harm’s way. I would have been inconvenienced and possibly fined if she hit my door; she would have been on the ground, bruised and bleeding for not anticipating the situation (and most Calgary drivers would have hit her - her putting faith in Calgary drivers is going to get her hurt).
Regardless of your intent in THAT thread, your original statement to me was:
bolding mine.
My posts were certainly not insinuating that there’s some widespread problem of violent bikers taking to the sidewalks and razing pedestrians. But the problem is HARDLY “precious little evidence” or “more perceived than real” either. And that, was my point, and the impetus for my self-admitted “moderate” cites, NOT to show that it was some sort of wild out of control epidemic of cyclists mowing down pedestrians.
And in that, the cites DO show that no it’s more than “precious little” evidence. And is certainly real,not merely perceived.
Clearly, there are UK Doper pedestrians who perceive cyclists not to be all sweetness and light but to be a real problem for pedestrians. The reality, as shown by the data, is strikingly different.
Unless you can come up with some actual data to make me change my mind, I will assume that US Doper pedestrian perceptions are similarly counter factual.
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You were in a parking lot? I don’t know anything about Canadian law, but here, parking lot incidents are kindof handled in a “he said/she said” manner. There’s not much way to prove who was in the wrong, since all are supposed to know that they’re supposed to be watching and backing out carefully and so on.
My question is, what the hell was the cyclist doing riding between parked cars instead of in the lanes, or out on the bike trail/street? I’m just trying to get a picture of how this occured. I"m getting an image of cars parked in a row, and her riding in between them. I can’t imagine that you’d be in the wrong for opening your door, I mean, you’re in a parking spot, unless someone is in your OWN car and getting out of the back or something, the only things that “should” be between the two parallel lines of your parking space are your car and you and your passengers if any.
Bear in mind when answering that every human activity has risk associated with it. Do a search on Google and you’ll come up with plenty of cites for people choking to death on their food.
Where is the evidence that cycling on footpaths is dangerous beyond the background level of the dangers of life that we all accept.
Is not, to ME, “precious little”. The incidents exist.
Again, no, they aren’t some raging epidemic but neither are they “precious little evidence”, again where the phrases “precious little” and not real, merely perception" to ME translate to “zero” or near zero.
298 in NYC alone isn’t zero or near zero.
Obviously to YOU, it is.
And secondly, I notice you didn’t respond at ALL to the questions I asked in my post.
Again, is it your belief that NO cyclists ever do wrong? And is it your belief that only a government website has “real” data?
You need to get your relative and your absolute sorted out.
Further, the numbers for a city like NY are precious little. They do not justify the sort of finger pointing against cyclists that this thread evinces. Two hundred and ninety eight of anything in an extremely busy city of millions is nuthin’.
I didn’t answer because I overlooked them, but now that I’ve gone back and had a look, I have to say I didn’t miss much.
Do I think cyclists never do anything wrong? Why the fuck would you think so? Why would you even ask such a stupid question?
Is it my belief that only a government website has “real” data? No, why the fuck would you think so? I dismissed your cites because they are anecdotes, single data points giving no relativity, no overall picture, about as useful as a pinhole in a wall for seeing the landscape on the other side.
Furthermore, of those 298 bicycle/pedestrian accidents, a good proportion are going to result from collisions on roads, and/or where it is the pedestrian’s fault. I don’t know what proportion, but some.
Still further, don’t twist my words: I never said that cycling/pedestrian accidents were “not real”. I said they were “more perceived than real”. ie I know (and have repeatedly acknowledged) that cyclists are involved in accidents that are sometimes their fault. The point is that the perception of how often that occurs is greater than the reality, and compared to many commonly accepted risks in life, that caused by cyclists doing the wrong thing is vanishingly small.
What kind of biker rides right beside a car with an occupant who is obviously about to get out? A human one. And “obviously”? I watch very hard for people getting out of cars, but it’s not easy. Reflections off glass, high headrests etc make it tricky and maintaining 100% concentration on that while also watching where you’re going, watching what the traffic is doing etc makes it all too easy to miss someone getting out of a car sometimes.
Its not like she has X-ray vision. Its not easy to see which car is occupied or not. Unless you dove into the spot, turned off the engine and prepared to get out while in the cyclist field of view, there’s not an easy way to tell what is going to happen.
The problem is: If she rides next to the doors, she is risking her life. Is she moves out further into traffic, she is an arrogant cyclist taking up all that space and slowingeverybody down.
Most bicycle lanes are placed right in the dooring zone. Then drivers bitch and moan that cyclists ride exactly on the line to stay out of it. We can’t win.
Do I really fucking need to support this statement? Are you that thick?
Say you bowl for fun. Suppose the government said you had to register your bowling ball and get a licence to bowl. Attendence at bowling alleys would collpase. Some die-hards would get registered, and stay up to date. But the guy who hasn’t bowled in a year would open his closet one day and see his bowling ball, think “Hey! I should go bowling”. Then he realises that the registration on his bowling ball is expired. He figures the heck with it, and dros the idea of going bowling.
Geez. I can’t believe I had to explain this to you. Do you really think government interference with anything improves attendence?
I drove into the spot; it was on a road with no other traffic. It was the last parking spot at the end of the road; the cyclist came up from behind, and certainly could have seen me pulling into the spot and turning off my car and preparing to get out. As I said, there was no other traffic on the road. As I also have said, it would have been my fault for hitting her with the door; drivers are responsible for looking before opening their doors here, but I still think she made a bone-head move by watching my car pull up, watching me prepare to get out, seeing there was no other traffic anywhere on this street, and still cycling right beside my car door.
When I’m a pedestrian, I have the legal right-of-way to cross the street once the pedestrian walk light comes on, but I still look behind me for right-turners that will turn right over me. This has saved my bacon many times on downtown streets. I would be in the right if a driver hits me in a crosswalk, but I take responsibility for my own safety by watching for drivers doing something stupid, and this cyclist should have done the same.
FIFTY-THREE pedestrians and cyclists killed by BUSES in one year in NYC? I’m trying to find that statistic in the Chicago area (with collar counties a similar population) but offhand I’d say that sounds mighty steep.
As for the 298 cyclist/pedestrian collisions, how many of the cyclists were messengers? If fictional TV shows are accurate ;), bike messengers are all crazy and suicidal and don’t care who they take with them.
featherlou, I’m speaking as a bicyclist, pedestrian, AND driver and I beleve that woman who nearly rode into your door is bucking for a Darwin Award. She’s a moron.