What I’ve often wondered is this: What about making a right turn against a red light, where there are two dedicated right-turn lanes? Right turns are supposed to be only from the right-most (curb) lane into the right-most lane. And if the light is red, you come to a full stop and then turn right when it’s safe.
But here and there, we have intersections with two dedicated right-turn lanes. My question: If you are in the second right-turn lane (the one that isn’t the curb lane), and the light is red, is a right turn allowed against a red light? It seems like it’s more complicated, because you would be turning into the second lane from the curb, meaning you’d have to cross the curb lane of the cross street in the intersection. So you have to watch for BOTH lanes in the cross street to be clear of traffic before making the turn. It’s not intuitive to me that this would be allowed against a red light.
This is California, BTW. I looked in the driver handbook, where they have many left and right turn scenarios illustrated, but I didn’t see this one.
ETA: Also a variation on that scenario, that I see sometimes: The right-most lane is a dedicated right-turn lane, and the lane just left of that is marked as an optional straight-ahead-or-right-turn lane.
Nearly every intersection that I’ve seen with multiple right turn lanes prohibits right turns on red, so I’ll bet this doesn’t come up to often. The one intersection I know of that fits your bill is this one (I hope the link works):
That intersection has a sign that prohibits right turns on red from the center lane. Of course, that doesn’t tell you much about the general rule; I wouldn’t infer from the sign’s presence that right turns from the center lane would otherwise be permitted.
An intersection here on James Island, at Harbor View and Folly has two right lanes but a sign reads: “Right turn on red only from right lane.” Good idea for all such intersections.
This one does not prohibit right turns on red. I ‘backed up’ to behind the limit line and double-checked. No signs there either. I make a right turn on red, from the left right-turn lane every time I take that street. (Yes, every time. I can’t seem to hit that light on green.)
I’ll have the vinaigrette dressing on my word salad, please, waiter.
The earlier column linked by markn+ contained multiple posts that either addressed right turns on red from the curb lane, or right turns from other designated lanes but without mentioning if that was allowed on red too. There were posts saying things to the effect: Some such intersections have signs specifically saying right turn on red from curb lane only, therefore in the absence of such signs, it’s legal. :dubious: Sorry, I’m not satisfied with that. Are you imagining that there’s some correlation between law and logic much? :smack:
The link to the L. A. Times article is equally vague. It quotes a section of DMV code saying that right turn on red is okay from curb lane, and it quotes a further remark that right turn from second lane, where designated for right turns, is okay but that passage doesn’t say it’s okay on red, but the columnist says it is. ETA: The only really convincing remark in that article is the mention that a lot of real live cops don’t seem to know the answer either.
With due respect, I can’t even look at the two links posted above to google maps. Since google has “improved” their on-line maps, it doesn’t work at all on my mochine. When I go to google maps, all I get is a blank screen anymore :mad:
One poster remarked that he sees other cars doing this all the time. Actually, so do I. But that doesn’t prove anything. I don’t think the absence of a sign forbidding it proves anything either.
Nice try (so far) everybody. Thanks for your efforts though.
From the CA Driver Handbook:
“Traffic Signal Lights
Solid Red– A red signal light means “STOP.” You can make a right turn against a red light after you stop then yield to pedestrians, bicyclists, and vehicles close enough to be a hazard. Make the right turn only when it is safe. Do not turn if a “NO TURN ON RED” sign is posted.”
Unless otherwise posted, a right turn on red after stopping is legal from any lane marked as a right turn lane. There are lane requirements. For example, with two right turn lanes, the farthest right has to turn into the farthest right lane on the cross street, while the second turn lane out can turn into any other lane.
There’s a T intersection here in Ottawa with two right turn lanes, and for years everyone made (presumably) legal right turns from both lanes on red. Recently, within the last year or two, there’s a new sign posted stating “No Right Turn On Red.”
Which burns my ass because if there’s nothing coming why the hell can’t I turn right on red? The line of visibility is unencumbered.
Not that it helps anyone in California, but here in Missouri, I believe you can generally turn right on red from both lanes in the scenario described in the OP. There is at least one such intersection like that near me in Columbia, MO, and you can turn right on red from both lanes. I know the city used to have a page on their website assuring everyone that it was OK, but I can’t find it now. Anyway, it’s a pretty busy intersection and everyone does it routinely.
While others have cited the law saying it’s legal to turn right on red from the 2nd to right lane, I wonder what the designers though. It’s signal clearly has four lights. As a left turn is not allowed from that lane, I’d think the bottom light would have to be a right arrow. That would seem to imply you should not turn right without that arrow.
And supported by Mr. Roadshow. The real authority.
This situation mostly occurs on freeway off-ramps which often have two right turn lanes. I and everyone else turn right from the left one, when safe, of course.
In California, if there’s a green right-turn arrow (meaning you have a protected right-turn), then usually there will also be a red right-turn arrow as well. Right turn against a red right-turn arrow if forbidden. You can’t just stop and turn when save. You have to wait for the green.
ETA: BTW, there’s some degree of correlation between having a protected right turn and the cars coming from your right-to-left NOT being allowed to make a U-turn. If cars coming from the right are allowed to make a U-turn on their green, then your right turns on red cannot be protected since those cars making the U-turn will be turning into the same lane that you are turning into. Where those U-turns are not allowed, then some intersections will have a protected right turn for you while those cars coming from your right are making their left turns. Many more intersections, however, don’t have a protected right turn in this situation, even when they could.
ETA: The only really convincing remark in that article is the mention that a lot of real live cops don’t seem to know the answer either.