It’s not about an obligation. It’s about finding a solution to the problem while keeping your butt out of the New York Times.
And how is that McDonalds’ responsibility? There are already loads of other places in the area – it just so happens these people just like hanging out at this particular place.
They’ve already offered solutions – the people don’t want to hear them. They want what they already have.
It’s not McDonald’s responsibility, but it is McDonald’s reality.
It’s a reality that, for some reason, a bunch of old people have chosen to congregate there. it’s a reality that they aren’t, for whatever reason, going to other locales. It’s a reality that for whatever reason, that is no longer working for the franchise.
It’s a reality that calling the police on elderly coffee drinkers is going to be generate bad press. It’s a reality that the franchise is in a Korean American area, where for cultural reasons, the population (i.e. customers) is especially likely to side with the oldsters. It’s a reality that this in the New York Times, and it’s not doing McDonald’s any favors.
It’s in their rights to have Grandpa hauled away in cuffs. But it’s a reality that that would be the end of their business. So they can be as righteous as they want, but if they want to keep existing, they are going to have to find a collaborative solution that is satisfactory to the community they are serving. I would hope the local government, which represents the community and has the interests of both business and private citizens in mind, would be able to help mediate.
This is an article from the New York Daily News yesterday about an assemblyman’s attempts at negotiating a truce to this situation. The article includes photos of the restaurant, which should give you an idea of how small it is. I only see a few booths. It’s much smaller than the typical suburban McDonald’s restaurant. (Also, the restaurant is at the corners of Parsons and Northern Blvds in Flushing, Queens, if you want to look at it on Google Maps.)
filmore is thinking along the same I was. Take out the regular tables and booths and install bar tables with backless bar stools. Maintain just enough facilities to stay in compliance with ADA.
I’d be on the manager’s side if it was some other type of restaurant. But come on, this is a McDonald’s - those places are basically eyesores whose whole purpose seems to be to invite absolutely anyone in, and the seniors group obviously got that impression as well.
Unless other customers literally have no place to sit (has anyone said that?), the manager is simply putting on airs. It’s like chasing people away from a bus station vending machine - what’s the point?
Yes, they’ve said that. The article in the OP mentioned that other customers have asked for refunds because there’s no place for them to sit.
Well, in that case I guess the manager does have a point and the seniors should change their habits.
It feels weird taking McDonald’s side, though… I feel like I need to take a shower now to wash off the deep frier smell. 
Korean small business owners are not exactly known for being overly accommodating themselves. If it was their store they’d kick out problematic asshole American customers and it wouldn’t take them years to do it (as well they should).
I can’t wait for the inevitable South Park episode on this.
You are starting to sound like Lumbergh from Office Space. This is not a way that people speak when they are talking to each other normally. Have you been put in charge of too many Powerpoint slide shows at work lately or something?
They are threatening a nationwide boycott of McDonald’s. That’s a much bigger deal. Think about it. If Korean senior citizens boycotted every McDonald’s in the US, we’re talking tens of dollars of lost revenue!
We’ve got a McDonalds like that in a strip mall in the exurb where I live. It’s crowded if there are 20 people in there, and if 30 people were all trying to find seating there, they’d have to be quite friendly with each other. Next time I’m down there, I’ll have to see how many actual seats they have.
The only way a negotiated solution is possible is if the geezers who are taking up all the space can be talked into clearing out during the busy times around lunch and dinner.
So far, nobody’s having any luck with this. So if I’m the person at corporate HQ responsible for dealing with this (and stories in the NYT make it a corporate HQ problem by definition), I’m hiring an outfit to do focus groups to find music that annoys the hell out of Korean-American seniors, but that the rest of their clientele isn’t likely to be too bothered by.
Say what?
You honestly think their purpose in coming back is to annoy the people in the store?
It’s difficult to think ahead and try to see how you might feel about things if you are lucky enough to reach your eighties. Most people are just not lucky enough to reach that age.
But can you imagine that you reach your 80s and no one has any time for you except for other old folks? Can you imagine what that might feel like and what you might do instead?
Would you sit at home in your room and stare at the walls? Or at the TV?
If that doesn’t appeal to you, please tell me what you would do to escape the crushing loneliness.
Today you have lots of family around. You live with a bunch of them. But when you reach your 80s, most of them will be dead or living in other cities or busy with their own families and will want nothing to do with you.
Please tell us how much time you spend with any of your family members in their 80s. I think it might be very informative to know.
As penance, can you think of anything that you would like to do when you are in your 80s as an alternative to hanging out at McDonalds? Where would you go to hang out?
Boo hoo.
By your reasoning, the 30 year old unemployed father, after purchasing one bagel, has a right to camp out with his laptop at Panera from 8am to 5pm because in addition to being a cozy place, they offer free wifi. I mean, where else would you go to hang out if you were unemployed?
The 50 year old homeless person, after buying a newspaper at Barnes & Noble, has a right to plop herself on one of those warm, comfy chairs and camp out from 1pm til it closes. I mean, where else would she want to hang out if she only has a cardboard box as an alternative?
The gang of hormonal teenagers with no money and no jobs all decide to cruise the local shopping mall every Friday and Saturday night, because their parents won’t allow them to invite 50 of their closest friends over to hang out at their house. Of course, these kids have no intention of EVER buying anything, but the mall is warm, dry, convenient, and FREE! I mean, where else would you want to hang out if you were a teenager?
I guess as long as you have a sob story, you can do anything you want. And to hell with the businesses who have to suffer as a result of your boorish behavior.
P.S. In all the examples above, business HAVE kicked out these “patrons” or set limits on the amount of time they can linger.
Nobody is saying they are right. Nobody is saying that non-paying customers, including these ones, have a right to take up space.
But the idea that the oldsters started doing this as some kind of spiteful move against McDonalds is insane. There is SOME reason they started going there. Even if one of they guys the NYT interviewed had a hard time articulating it, there is still some reason.
As for kids, if they are clogging up the malls and other inappropriate venues, damn straight it’s the city’s job to start some midnight basketball or or a skate park something. Communities have a need for public space, and it’s the city’s job to make sure those public spaces work so that people don’t start treating random places as public parks.
From that article: “…with seniors tossing coffee at workers”
Is anyone prepared to defend these people for actual assault and battery? This is utterly ridiculous.
Yes, I do. Although you weren’t asking me, but yes, yes I do think that’s exactly what they’re doing. I think it’s getting their hearts racing and putting some excitement into their dull days. I think they’re having a fucking ball with this, I honestly do. Because these are PEOPLE. Seniors aren’t angels - you don’t get your halo for being old, you get your halo when you’re dead.
THERE ARE HALF A DOZEN SENIOR CENTERS WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE!
Look, I work with Senior Citizens. Most of them, like most people, are lovely people. Some of them are assholes. These particular Seniors are throwing coffee at workers and loitering at a restaurant for 12 hours a day without buying more than a cup of coffee…which they then throw at workers! These Seniors are being assholes.
I agree with **even sven **that a collaborative action is the way to go here, because you just don’t win against assholes. Bumping heads never works, because they’re more hardheaded than you or I could ever be.
I suspect the reason the Senior Centers haven’t won their favor is because they’re boring, and old people go there. These chaps clearly still crave some adventure and excitement in their lives. I don’t know how Senior Centers are going to fill that need, but it’s unlikely to be with Bingo and free coffee.
ETA: I see this as an illustration of a much bigger problem we have, and a problem that will only get bigger over the next 20 years: what is there for Seniors to DO in our society? We want them to sit quietly and not bother anyone and kindly do it in this designated building where we don’t have to look at you and be made to feel guilty because your life is so boring these days. What do most of my patients need? They don’t need a nurse - they need a productive life. They need a hobby. They need to be doing something other than staring blankly at The Price is Right and shuffling down to the cafeteria thrice a day to gum down tasteless low sodium mush while commisterating over their arthritis and water pills.
Nobody thinks this started five years ago as a spiteful move. There most likely wasn’t any sort of decision made to stay there five years ago and they probably didn’t choose this McDonald’s for any real reason except that a couple of them happened to run into each other there one day. The group probably gradually got larger and extended the time they spent at McDonald’s over time. But continuing this behavior after being asked to leave, and returning ten minutes after being told to leave - that very likely is spiteful,hardheaded behavior.
And if the city has provided plenty of parks and midnight basketball games and the kids still clog up the malls, then what?
I wouldn’t expect midnight basketball to solve the problem of kids clogging up a mall. I wouldn’t expect even a delux recreational center to do the job. Why? Because neither are the mall. Kids want access to the things that make malls attractive. Like a Sbarros and Cinnabon and a Forever 21. The socializing is important, but without the “right” atmosphere, they aren’t going to want to socialize. Really, what’s a Valley girl going to do at a midnight basketball game?
A dingy basement obviously isn’t what these guys want. But I’m betting that even a nicer place with better coffee and a street-level view would be neglected. Because it wouldn’t be the same. No french fry smell, first of all. And it would feel like an old folks home. The same way a rec center might feel like an extension of school, for a teenager.
It’s the city’s job to make sure public spaces work. But if 99.5% of Flushing Queens elderly people are somehow able to make the public spaces work for them, but a minority won’t go along with the program, this is not the city’s fault. It’s not the city’s job to accommodate the whims and desires of every single resident. Especially when city resources are already being stretched too thin.
I think it’s a larger problem than you think. I know lots of retirees from 55 to 90- something. The only ones who have boring, non-productive lives are the ones who had boring lives pre-retirement. Those who engaged in hobbies continue those hobbies post-retirement. Those who traveled before continue to travel. They go to the senior center when something is going on there that they want to do- not coffee and bingo but bus trips, book clubs or classes. They continue to play golf and go bowling and play softball, either with other retirees during the day (when fees are lower) or evenings and weekends with a mixed-age group. They visit museums and go to the theatre. Those who essentially had no life outside of work , who almost had to be forced to retire are the ones who stare blankly at the TV. And of course those who stared blankly at the TV pre-retirement continue to do so. But it’s not because we what them to sit in a room out of sight- it’s because they don’t know what to do with themselves without work (whatever that work was).