Absolutely.
Seniors’ Fight club?
Note that I don’t think there are “cultural” reasons why they are being kicked out. But I do think there are cultural reasons why the seniors feel they have a right to be there, and why the community is to some degree backing them up. I don’t think this excuses anything, but it’s worth understanding if you want to solve the problem.
I’m going to be blunt, sven - that’s the culture in Korea. This isn’t Korea. Here you don’t have a right to hang out at McDonalds for all hours, no matter what they may believe.
Culture isn’t an excuse for being a jackass. It doesn’t give them the right to force other people to bow to their whims. Your right to swing your fist and all that.
Yeah, but it’s also a reality that continuing to lose customers and give refunds because Grandpa is monopolizing the only seats is going to be the end of their business. The old farts can “win” in the short term by not moving on, but they’re going to drive the place out of business and then they’ll have to make do with one of the myriad options they flatly refuse to even consider at this time.
I get that old guys want to hang out together in public and sip coffee and swap bullshit. It’s such an established thing in our family we have a name for it–the Liars’ Club. My dad spends a substantial proportion of his mornings at the meetings of his local chapter. Some mornings there’s 15 or 20 of them at the local diner, telling all sorts of whoppers while they linger over their fifth cup and decide whether or not to eat that last two bites of eggs. But they’re never taking up more than a third of the space, they always clear out by 10:30 or so, and they all buy a meal.
I’ve done that. They seemed to like it; they took to comping me after a while.
I’ve done that, too. I wasn’t homeless and smelled reasonably fresh. No one tried to hurry me along. They do seem to be less friendly about this sort of thing now, which is one reason I don’t go there any more. That, and I increasingly buy local.
What we’re running into here is social custom vs. business expediency. It’s pretty well-established that one can hang out in McDonald’s (or coffee shops or whatever) for a long time after purchasing something. Walk into any Panera and you’ll see people with their books or their computers or what ever spread out for hours doing schoolwork or whatever. A business has a right to boot folks after a while, but doing so is swimming against the cultural stream, even when it gets to ridiculous levels as it has in Flushing.
I think even sven is advising a “know your enemy” approach, rather than justifying the behavior.
Well, except that social custom involves expectations of both parties. The expectation is that you can hang out for a long time provided a)you’re not taking up a lot of room, b) they’re not busy, and c) you’ve bought something in the last couple hours. If you’re doing that, it’s actually much more expedient for the business to let you hang out–you’re not getting in the way of making other sales, and if you come in and have a cup of coffee and a snack every afternoon, that’s a guaranteed sale during a slow time. It’s a win for everyone–unless a huge number of people start doing that and interfering with other patrons being served, in which case you get the Tragedy of the Commons.
And when one party in a social contract isn’t fulfilling any of the expectations placed on them, the cultural response is typically that the party in question can go fuck himself. If these guys were taking up 10% of the seating for an hour or two after eating their Egg McMuffin apiece in the late-morning lull and the restaurant was calling the cops to have them thrown out, people would be all up the franchisee’s ass for not holding up his end of the social custom.
They’ve reached a truce. According to WNBC, “The McDonald’s in Flushing has agreed to extend seating hours from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. A sign on the door previously said customers should limit their visits to 20 minutes.” They’ve posted signs in Korean and Chinese, and will call the office of (Korean-American) Assemblyman Ron Kim if there are any further issues.
The text of the full press release is here. Among other things, it says:
"Continuing to be a part of the community and hoping to keep all of his customers happy, the owner, Mr. Jack Bert, has agreed to:
- Extend sitting hours for seniors except high-traffic hours (11am-3pm);
- Post signs to communicate in both Chinese and Korean; and
- Work with our office to resolve any future conflicts and do not call the police; and
- Collaborate with local senior centers in providing transportation to and from the restaurant."
What are you talking about? I’ve never once heard of them causing intense (and possibly damaging) discomfort. :rolleyes: Are you creating issues that don’t really exist?
The agreement sounds overly generous. And I wouldn’t be surprised if those asshole customers still didn’t follow it. Why would they, when they’ve been so unreasonable so far?
I’ve seen it. Half a dozen students crowded around each table with books open and one small coffee between them at Starbucks. Taking up the entire place.
Well you could cetainly be correct. I don’t know.
But have you seen the recent story about an 84 year old Asian man who was walking across the street (in NYC in Manhattan I think) with a group of other people (admittedly he was jaywalking or walking against the light or doing something else wrong) and he got beat up by the cops and wound up with a bloody face? If I read the article correctly, he was walking in a group with other people but he was the only one to get beaten.
I don’t live in the USA. I have always wanted to live in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. blah blah blah
I do love Americans. But maybe not American cops?
Have a look. See what you think? I’m not certain. But if I read this correctly, I think it stinks!
And that has what to do with this story?
Especially since they have already started an MPSIMS thread about the jaywalking incident
Wow. Is he going to lick their boots clean, too?
What do you think’s in the burgers?
[/Barth]
It has to do with cultural reasons why that man might have been arrested. If you read the story, his son said he was crossing the street in a group of people but he was the only one stopped.
I’m wondering if that may have happened for cultural or racist reasons.
And that has what to do with this story?
You get your news from the* NY Post*? Well, that explains a lot.