I met an English truck driver at the inn in southern Germany that is my part time residence this year. In the course of conversation, it came up that his list of stops included some places in “Germany” and some in “Old Germany”. IIRC Furth was in Old Germany, Stuttgart was not, Nuremberg was but Munich was not. My recollection could be wrong, and there were several other places. He seemed to think that old Germany was a place that was well known by all and sundry. I have never heard this term, and was unable to find it on a search, perhaps complicated by the number of places that utilize the name “Old Germany” without giving useful information.
Being American, almost all of Germany seems pretty old to me, while Germany as such is not that old at all.
Any English or others out there care to enlighten me as to the meaning of the term? Maybe it refers to Germania?
I’m not familiar with a version of the term that would fit your categories. I’ve seen, in stamp collecting, “Old Germany” used to refer to the German states pre-unification. So, if you had a coin or stamp from 1850s Bavaria, for instance, you would refer to it as an “Old German” coin/stamp.
I’ve also seen it used, in reference to Germany in World War II, to refer to Germany proper, in contrast to those places that were annexed into Germany, although the usual term used was “Altreich” “Altes Reich” was also used to refer to the Holy Roman Empire.
He might be referring to the “Limes Germanicus”. If I remember correctly Munich and Stuttgart would be in the formerly Roman province of Germania while Nuremberg lies north of the limes in the in unconquered territory.
Not a German geographical usage that I know of. There is a philatelic usage Altdeutschland referring to stamps pre-1871, also a poetical/political usage referring to time periods that are ending or are just ending: cf. Heinrich Heine’s Die schlesischen Weber: Altdeutschland, wir weben dein Leichentuch (Old Germany, we weave your shroud) - referring to a wish that there be a revolution finishing with the present unbearable social order.
So, the only usages of Altdeutschland (Old Germany) refer to time periods not geographical areas.
The geographical distinction between Roman-occupied provinces and the free part of Germany is not one that’s used wrt to current places that did not exist at the time i.e. a sufficiently educated German would know the Roman name of his town if there was one, but whether it was part of a Roman province or part of germania magna would not figure into today’s regional identity.
The only distinction between Nuremberg and Fürth on the one hand and Munich and Stuttgart on the other hand would be that the former are both in Franconia - but that would not be mishearable as Old Germany IMO.
Another possibility is that there used to be substantial German ethnic communities throughout Eastern Europe. Most of these “Germans” were forced to resettle inside the modern borders of Germany following WWII. “Old Germany” might be a reference to these regions.
Would this have anything to do with the “stem duchies” of the earliest days of German civilization – as opposed to the “marks” like Brandenburg, Austria, etc.? (This is speculative, intended to find out if anyone who happens to know Germanic history well can establish a link or refute the guess.)
If it helps at all the truck driver was probably in his fifties and came from Reading. I don’t think the Reading bit will be much use, but his age might, in case the term has become a relic recently.
Might the have really meant West Germany, before reunification?
As a truck driver in his 50s he might well have become very familiar with West Germany without ever visiting the East before the Wall came down. Once it did, a whole “new” area of Germany would have opened up to him.
I thought about that, but this stuff was written on a list. Bonn and Stuttgart were both in “Germany”, not “Old Germany”. Both were in West Germany (Bonn was the capitol). Fürth is part of Bavaria and was, to my knowledge, never part of East Germany.
That’s possible, but he didn’t mention it in when we discussed it. I asked him about it and he seemed to think everyone knew what he was talking about. He didn’t speak a lick of German, but he was a very talkative fellow. We spent several hours swapping stories. I think he was glad of having another English speaker around.