Old Movies With Bad Acting, Or Was That Good Then?

I was watching MGM Parade (an old series they show late at night on TCM) and they were showing clips of old movies.

One thing I noticed is how much “mugging” and “over-acting” many of the actors did back then while on screen. In comedies, guys slap the tops of their head when they are confounded, when there are close ups of kids or women in emotional scenes and their eyes get real big and the mouths open and quiver. Then there are the awkward poses as people stand, unsure of what do do with their hands and feet, plus the dramatic collapsing on sofas and fanning of of brows.

Granted, we have more than our share of crappy actors still getting roles, and of course there were some great, classic actors and actresses back in day - from silent films onwards.

But for many lesser known films and actors/actresses from older films - it seems that you could get away with a lot of “hamming it up” and “mugging” for the camera.

I know that a lot of stage actors have problems adapting to film; it is one thing to act on stage and have people in the back rows see your facial expressions vs. a close up of a camera on your face.

But do you think, in general, film acting STYLE has changed over the years?

Oh, certainly. Watch A Streetcar Named Desire for the older, more theater-influence style and the newer Method style colliding.

I think even todays actors still have a style that is unrealistic. It looks good on film and stresses drama and emotion but is so far removed from reality it looks silly in comparison.
When I see someone in a current film doing a dramatic tense scene I try to picture someone doing that in real life. It would come off as really fake looking.
The close up angry whispering, etc.

Definitely, in some at least you are observing a ‘style’ thing. In the commentary on some DVDs it is even noted that the director wanted to use theater style for affect.

Actors in old movies primarily came from two backgrounds:

A) The stage, where you had to project to the back of the theater or

B) Silent movies, where you had to rely on non-verbal communications, i.e., expressions and gestures.

Between the two, you can see where an exaggerated acting style would be preferable. In my uneduated, non-film critic opinion, it’s no coincidence that the more “naturalistic” style of acting didn’t really emerge until the 1950s – it took an entire generation of actors (and directors, cinematographers, lighting directors, etc.) who grew up with film to adapt to it.

I went through a phase of watching silent films. I expected lots of those cue cards or whatever they’re called, but what amazed me was how few of them there were, and how much was conveyed simply by the physical acting. I’m sure a lot of that carried over to the early talkies.

Another thing is, most people will see something startling and inwardly go “wow” or they’ll be doing something and think “hey, I figured it out” but an observer can’t tell that by looking at them. The actor’s job is to get the observer to tell that by looking at them. So to this day they have to gesticulate in an unrealistic fashion in order to get some emotions across.

Exactly.

Add to this the fact that audiences didn’t want or expect realism; you can get that from real life.

It’s all in the context and the expectations: even today, you don’t expect realism from animated films. Back then, no one thought of the movies as an accurate depiction of real life. They were stories and escape. Realism didn’t become a concern of mainstream filmmakers till after the war. Even then it was around 20 years more before realism in films became the norm.

Acting, just like any other art, uses a (not necessarily very sharply defined) set of tropes to bring a certain message across – styles of emoting, mannerisms, posture etc.; if you’re accustomed to these tropes yourself, the acting style appears natural to you, and if you aren’t, you’ll find it unconvincing and artificial, as one does when looking back at some movies of the past. That doesn’t actually mean that contemporary acting is more natural than how it used to be, just that you’re more familiar with its modes of expression – it’s entirely plausible that, fifty years down the line, present day acting will appear as stilted and unnatural as the acting of the past now does to us.

This get’s just a little bit ranty, but this is a hot button topic for me, so forgive me for getting just the tiniest bit off topic. The basic question has been answered fairly well at this point I think.

There is more to it then that, though that does play in to it. The bigger part is the revolution in acting of all types that started with Lee Straussberg and the actors studio.

This will get long if I actually go into it, but in short form Straussberg was heavily influenced by Stanislavsky and his approach to stage realism. Realism and naturalism had become something of a fad on stage in the 1920s and 30s, and Stanislavsky was one of it’s bigger proponents. Straussberg cherry picked some techniques and unleashed them on Hollywood at the same time helping to convince people that what they wanted to see from actors was reality*.

Before about the 1950s though this was not really true. People weren’t looking for reality. As lissener said:

Which is exactly right.

On top of that, as Hampshire pointed out:

is also right. What we view as “realistic” acting today, really is not very much like reality. No one in real like acts the way people in movies act, it’s just that we have grown accustom to the conventions of modern acting and see anything that falls outside of those conventions as false or “unrealistic.” But the goal of acting is not to mimic reality, the goal is to tell a portion of a story with your body. So today, in the west, that usually means acting with a modern realistic style. But today’s style is still just a style and no more good or bad than any other styles.

Acting should be judged on how well it accomplishes the goals of the actor, not on how realistic or natural it is. Only when naturalism is the goal should the actors realism be taken into account, and even today that is often not the goal.

*Stella Adler was involved in this too, but I think on the whole her techniques are more fundamentally sound, so I am leaving her out of this.

His cousin Lee Strasberg was pretty influential too. :smiley:

Yeah yeah. That was supposed to just be a placeholder name for while I was doing the initial writing. I meant to go back and get the right spelling, but then I got a rhythm going and totally forgot. On the whole I am rather pleasantly surprised at how close I got with my guess.

I would add that a lot of older movies play much better and seem more natural on a theater screen rather than a TV screen. I didn’t really become a huge fan of old movies until I had the chance to see them at a revival house - it was an entirely different experience from seeing the film on a small screen. It looks way less “stagey” seen the size it was meant to.

I’ve heard that Marlon Brando in Streetcar ushered in a completely new style of acting. Oddly, that’s one of only two films (I think) to win three Academy Awards for acting, and Brando was not one of them. He was nominated, but didn’t win.

Sounds like you’re okay with Adler, not so much with Strasberg – am I reading you right on that? If so, what do you see the problem being with Strasberg?

I am more ok with Adler than Strasberg, though on the whole I don’t think either one of their systems works well long term without some other serious physical work that neither really addresses.

Adler I find to be a more healthy and sustainable acting technique. It doesn’t focus on single use tricks that force the actor to constantly relive trauma in order to create false emotional allegories. I think that the method, at it’s best, only works at all with people who are naturally gifted actors, and creates an acting style that prevents those with natural talent from ever growing or changing. It’s fundamental principle is to turn yourself into the character, which long term is impossible, so typically the character turns into the actor which undermines the writing. In short, in people who are not already grounded in solid technique, and even then if they aren’t already fairly good actors, you generally get inconsistent and self indulgent acting that serves the actor more than the story, and everything in acting should be in service to the story.

Moreover, while it is a technique that may work on film where performances only need to be given a single time, it is downright dangerous if used over the long haul of a stage performance. Even Stanislavsky abandoned the techniques that Strasberg built the majority of the Method on because they only work for a limited number of performances and after that the performance quality deteriorates. I also find the Method to be irresponsible and potentially psychologically dangerous because of it’s intense focus on emotional memory.

Adler started from the same place as Strasberg (Stanislavsky), but focused on the storytelling aspects of Stanislavsky’s teachings, and rather than picking at the actors psyche worked with an actors physicality to create emotion. These are the techniques that Stanislavsky himself, along with Michael Chekhov, expanded on in his own career after he dropped most of the emotional memory stuff. Her technique, because it is focused on repeatable actions and textual analysis rather than emotional recall provides much more consistency and generally (I think) better serves the written material.

That is all in theory. In practice, as a director I generally dislike working with both Method actors and Adler actors, though Adler’s disciples are generally possible to work with, while method players are almost impossible. If I know someone is a hardcore method person when I am casting I will generally not cast them. Fortunately this is actually a rather rare thing these days, there aren’t many people who are method only left, but the damage has been done. Method allows for lazy acting and actors who don’t want to rehearse because they want the performance to “stay fresh”.:rolleyes: The reality is that that “fresh” performance is just the first blush of where you are capable of taking it, and the valley that inevitable comes after the performance gets stale and the fight to get back out of that valley, is where the magic of great acting occurs. It’s only after you have gone through that low ebb that you can give a genuinely solid and consistent performance because it is in that ebb that you find the weakness and excess in your original “fresh” performance. The staleness is caused by the weaknesses, and the process of fixing them is the actual work of acting.

Anyway, it’s hard to find many actors who weren’t specifically being trained for the stage, who will agree with that these days. Heck it’s hard to find actors who have actually had much training at all these days. And yeah, I sort of blame Strasberg for that one too. Though not as much.:wink: