Old Navy toilets: a crude trough of flowing seawater?

Factual Questions
1

A long time ago, an old fellow who had served in both the Navy and the Coast Guard was telling me 'bout the Good Old Days…

He described an interesting toilet arrangement on his ship – as he explained it, they had a long trough, with seawater constantly flowing down the length and overboard. There were two boards running the length of the trough, with a suitable gap between them.

Apparently a sailor would plop down on the trough (I got the impression that they would straddle it), and take care of his business, letting all of the nasties flow out the side of the ship.
This sounds truly foul – the thought of watching your shipmates’ products flowing past you as you are so engaged does not sound pleasing.

Of course, my own experience on the Nimitz was entirely different – modern plumbing all around.

So, I ask, was this fellow telling sea stories, or was this true? If so, tell me the details…

2

That’s identical to what my Dad told of his time in the Navy during WWII.

3

The Pacific

4

Gee, I may never buy any clothes from Old Navy again.

5

You can, just make sure you use the facilities BEFORE you go into the store.

6

This might be just a sea story but old sailors have told me that one trick was the guy at or near the top end of the trough would set fire to a crumpled-up paper towell and float it down the trough.

7

My dad told me this was true. He also said that sometimes a prankster would get a chip of wood or make a paper boat and put paper on it, then light the paper on fire and let it go downstream whilst the seats were occupied.

8

Is the flushing mechanism modern/civilian, too? Or did the toilets have various valves?

9

Anybody have more concrete info? Pictures? Better descriptions?
Anyone actually send flaming bits of paper down the chute?

Perfectly ordinary civilian plumbing – no fancy motion sensors, but very typical of 1970s American public restroom flushers.

I have posted this before, but since this provides a fine opportunity…

[tangent]
I used to kick the handles on public toilets/urinals. Whenever a valve stuck, causing a non-stop flush, I would give the valve a swift kick and it would stop.

Then, one fine afternoon in the “head” on board the Nimitz, I finished my business and dutifully flushed. The valve stuck open, leaving the urinal in a permanent flush mode.

I decided that a swift kick to the valve would un-stick it. Poor judgment on my part. The valve broke off at the pipe and I was immediately struck in the chest by a two-inch wide jet of seawater straight from Puget Sound . They use “firemain” water for toilets on ships, at 150psi (much more than typical homes), so we’re talking about a solid powerful jet of water shooting horizontal across the bathroom to the other wall.

The water began to collect. Within mere seconds, it seemed that there were two inches of water on the floor.

I quickly left the bathroom, like a coward, as one does when a toilet overflows.

Moments later, I realized that this was probably more serious than an overflowed toilet, and my conscience made me call the emergency number and announce “flooding”.

How awful. They got on the PA system, announcing “Flooding, flooding in compartment x-y-z, blah blah blah.” Shortly thereafter a gang of folks came, loaded for bear, ready to handle my unintentional flood. I did not linger at the scene of the crime.

Don’t kick urinal handles. If one must use the toe, do it gingerly, keeping in mind that there exist booby traps in this world in the guise of urinals, with weak pipe connections.
[/tangent]

10

Consider the modern toilet on a submarine. Effluent has to be overpressurized in order for it to even flow out of the submarine. It is different today though. It used to be that the toilet lid made a seal with the toilet, and the the toilet itself was overpressurized to force effluent out of the vessel.

11

Except, of course, that they cost $500 more than their civilian counterparts. :wink:

12

My dad served on the destroyer USS Benham DD-796 in the early fifties and he had a lot of experience with the trough. :wink: So yes it is very true.

13

Two things:

  1. I don’t know about you, but my optical and excretory equipment is more or less diametrically opposed. I don’t think I’d be scanning the trough while squatting on it.

  2. I’m quite sure that, in the horrors of war, men see far worse than the odd turd floating down a trough. Have we really become so soft that we are repulsed by this? Doesn’t say much for the chances of the Navy in armed combat, if folks get squeamish over a perfectly serviceable toilet arrangement.

14

FWIW, I remember dad mentioning ‘destroyer’ when he told me about the troughs.

Dad was in the Army for two years at the end of WWII. (Not entirely sure about the timing. He has a WWII Service Ribbon, but I thought he’d joined the Navy right after leaving the army. Maybe he took a year off?) He was in the Army Signal Corps and was present for some atomic tests. I’m guessing he might have been transported by ship, though not on a destroyer.

Dad joined the Navy as an enlisted man in 1948. The first ship I know he was in was the USS Philippine Sea as combat aircrew on an AD-4N during the Korean Conflict. He was on Lexington on her first sailing after she was refitted with an angled deck. After he was commissioned (1956), he was the communications officer on USS Oklahoma City. (That was in the early-60s.)

So he was in the military in the late-40s/early-50s when he would have been around to see ships that used trough toilets. I’ve also e-mailed my uncle (born December 1941), who was a chief, for confirmation. (He doesn’t always answer e-mails though.)

15

The horrors of the liberty ship no doubt went far beyond the latrine. Modern ships have good ventilation and chill water systems to provide cooling to berthing compartments. When those systems fail life can turn to shit in short order. When was aboard the Ranger off the coast of Central America we had such a failure. My squadron had semi-private quarters for enlisted personnel - 200 swingin’ dicks in one compartment. The heat became unbearable. It was nearly impossible to sleep in our racks and when someone tried to sleep on top of lockers just to touch the cool metal the master at arms would give them the bum’s rush. The medical department came down to test temperature, ventilation and humidity. Their finding was that the compartment was unfit for human habitation.
“And?” we asked.
“And what?” our CSC (senior chief petty officer of the command) replied.
“And what are they going to do about it?”
“And…tough shit I guess. Engineering will fix it when they can.”
It was just about fucking unbearable. At least I got to work on the flight deck every day in the sunshine and fresh jet exaust. Those poor turd floaters on liberty ships not only had to put up with stifling heat but poor hygene. I’m quite certain they didn’t have the luxury of a fresh (though not potable) water shower every day and clean clothes to wear daily and weekly change of linens. The importance of hygene in such quaters is really important. Those who fail to take it seriously are often treated to a G.I. shower - scrub brushes and laundry soap. Most take the hint while they still have some skin left.

16

My father, who was in the Navy during WWII, said the same thing, only in his version he was one of miscreants. He said he once wadded up a small piece of newspaper, set it on fire and floated it down the trough. He said it was funny watching the guys pop up one by one as the newspaper floated down the trough.

17

That’s true, all the way around.

I served on modern ships, for the most part. That doesn’t help any when things break down.

For some strange reason, the CHT (contaminated holding and transfer - AKA sewage and food waste mixed with seawater) would often back up right into our berthing head and shower. Sometimes this would close it down for more than a day while the hull techs tried to unfuck the situation.

When I crossdecked onto a Venezuelean frigate for more than a week during a UNITAS cruise, I found they had no working water evaporators at all. All fresh water was for drinking and cooking only, and I violated uniform standards by not shaving or bathing that entire time. The only way I could stay somewhat clean was to use baby wipes.

18

Some of the old Spanish Forts in the Caribbean had such trench latrines flushed daily by seawater. They date back to the 16th century. Different from a 20th century U.S. Navy ship, I know, but still military.

Not just submarines. You modern small sailing vessel has a complex mechanism involving two pump handles that have to be operated in the correct order. And you’re not even underwater. When I was aboard a friend’s ship he advised me to use the port facilities if we were tied up, mainly because it was a lot simpler (besides being good in-port manners). Dave Barry wrote about Flushing at Sea in one of his columns (there’s a great cartoon with it). I think it’s reprinted in Dave Barry Talks Back.
The movie Das Boot shows you a few scenes of the complex U-Boat toilet.

19

Mr. Moto, I remember that we would complain when our laundry and occasionally our showers smelled of JP5. I bow to you sir for giving me a new definition of fucked up.

20

I’ve been to a few public bathrooms in India that worked on this principle. The most elegant was simply a slanted slab of cement (with half-wall dividers every few feet) with a trough of running water at the bottom. You do your business, rinse it in to the trough with your pitcher of water (required at every Indian bathroom in liu of toilet paper) and go on with your day.