I found a site with some cool old radio shows. The site itself says the shows are “believed to be in the public domain” but given how net-people will often choose to make “Should be in the public domain” become “Is in the…” I’m not sure I should believe this.
Is there any (official) reason to believe that a US radio broadcast that is earlier than 1948 would be in the public domain?
I don’t think it’s completely clear.
That said, I think the consensus is that for most of these shows the owners have allowed copyright to lapse and that they are indeed public domain. At any rate, they are openly and widely sold online and on eBay, most of the sites with big disclaimers that they will immediately remove any shows that are shown to be copyrighted. I don’t think that’s happened yet, because I’ve been buying OTR stuff online for years, and the selection just keeps expanding.
I’d say plunge in; OTR is a great hobby, and there’s never been a better time to get into it – for a couple bucks you can buy a CD with hours of world class entertainment that you can pop into an MP3 player or download to your ipod and take with you wherever you go. Enjoy!
Well, really the question is more whether I should feel fine linking out to the one place here, or if I would be better to be obfuse.
This is one of the “stealth” issues of intellectual property law.
IANAL, but I did a good bit of research on what’s called “orphaned copyright” this summer.
Basically, one of three conditions happened.
[ul]
[li]The material was never registered with the Copyright Office. Until fairly recently, all material had to be submitted to the Copyright Office to get enforceable protection. If the creators of the show never did so, the show is in the public domain.[/li][li]The material’s copyright was never renewed or defended, which means the show reverted into the public domain.[/li][li]As production companies went out of business, or individuals died, copyright may not have been transferred, so the copyright status may have become rather murky.[/li][/ul]
There is a lawsuit, Kahle v. Gonzales, that seeks to clarify these issues. Much older material is no longer commercially viable or is out of print. Kahle, et al. want to make sure that researchers and others have access to this material. (I can’t find a copy of the suit except through Lexis-Nexis.) I interviewed Rick Prelinger, who was one of the plaintiffs of the suit; that interview is the source of this information. Brewster Kahle is the founder of the Internet Archive, and Prelinger is a film collector who donated almost 2000 films to that archive for digitization and online access.
We had a thread in the last 6 months? about this. But I"ll be damned if I can find it.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=383938&highlight=otr.network
I think this is the one.
There’s some good info about where to get shows in this thread too.
If you look on eBay or other sites, you’ll see that people stick the label public domain on virtually everything they sell, including old television shows and movies in addition to radio.
The copyright question is murky as to the originals in the same way that newspaper copyrights are murky. In the past, there was no expectation that material once broadcast would ever or physically could ever be used a second time. A few means of transcription existed - large platter records for radio shows that could be replayed for armed services radio or kinescopes, literal movies made by photographing tv screens, e.g. However, there was no commercial market for these, no consumer market for these, and no belief that anyone outside of a few insiders would ever encounter them. Newspapers were similarly transient. Important and unique stories were copyrighted so that they could be resold with credit to others. These were so few and so special that the fact of a copyright was trumpeted as part of the story. Most newspapers, however, were one time use only. With no expectation that the words would ever be used again, there was no reason to go to the daily expense of registering a copyright. Automatic copyright upon print or broadcast did not exist either.
It’s not clear to me, although others would be more expert in this, whether the Library of Congress kept good records of copyrights of individual radio or television broadcasts. If they did then the original copyright should be searchable. Renewals of copyright were not as well documented, even by the LoC, however, which has lead to much confusion. You can pay to have the LoC staff do a copyright search for you, which made sense before Internet databases were developed and if you had one or two specific items to search. I did that when I was editing an anthology. But nobody who makes hundreds of programs available for free could afford this service.
I think the rule of thumb presumption today is that most early radio and tv shows were not originally copyrighted, but that movies were. But I have no way of knowing whether any individual or particular show was copyright, was renewed properly, or is still in copyright. I’m sure that some of the sellers are simply lying about their claims of public domain, some are sincere in their rule of thumb understanding of the situation, and some have done the necessary research. But I couldn’t tell one from the other if I tried.
Some download sites are obviously done by knowledgeable fans who probably know way more about the subject than I do. If you can find what appears to be a good trustworthy site that pays attention to the problem, then I’d go ahead. But I’d beware of buying CDs peddled on eBay or other pay sites unless you know the sellers or the programs very well.
There are bills being introduced in Congress to handle the problem of orphan copyrights. Today the law is simple and straightforward: a piece that can be called an orphan is still under copyright. Period. There is no legal apparatus for using these works without infringement.
Here is a site I found. It has a LOT of old programing, Audio and Visual. I can’t vouch for their claims, but I would think it a good place to start.
http://www.archive.org/details/oldtimeradio
The Video section, which I have seen, has Goverment videos (Duck and Cover) (Keep off the Grass) and other media that is undoubtedly Public domain. it also has Merrie Melodies shorts (about 5 or so, that I beleive to me public domain as well) Three stooges, popeye shorts etc etc.
This is the site I linked to above. It does have a lot of good stuff, some of which I’ve used in various projects. (I am fairly well versed in copyright law in terms of broadcasting, and I know what I can get away with and what I can’t.)
Exapno, as I understand it, the issue with orphan copyright is not whether the material is copyrighted. It is, and no one is denying that. The issue is that no one is around to enforce that copyright, essentially rendering a LOT of material unusuable because there’s no one around to license it. What Kahle and others want is for the government to either clarify the law to reduce the murkiness of the orphan copyright situation or figure out a way to make the material commercially usable. As this thread and the Internet Archive prove, there is a renewed interest in these media, and there should be a legal way to license it. You’re right about the other points, though.
Robin
I can’t speak for Kahle, but there are plenty of people - including some on the Dope - who want to abandon copyright for orphan works. Right now. Forget about legal redress. They wanna, and that trumps all. If the copyright is murky, then screw it. It’s free for them to take.
That attitude is rampant on the Internet. And that attitude is what I’m referring to.
There’s little doubt in my mind that some legislation will be put forward. Several of the major writers organizations are working toward legislation which would provide for a way out. That’s the only legal option.
And the courts won’t tackle the issue as long as there is a legislative pathway in the offing. (Not to mention that the argument in Kahle v. Gonzales is preposterous.)