I’m watching a silent movie with people on a train, sleeping in curtained sleeping areas on a train ride. Seen them in a hundred old movies, ‘Some Like It Hot’ comes to mind. Upper and lower bunks. Back in the day, what was it like? Were the cars segregated by sexes? It seems to me it could have been awkward, or even dangerous, a lot of train riders in vulnerable situations on a sleep train. But I have seen mixed sexes and ages in the movies portrayed as sleeping in curtained-off bunk beds. Was that a thing?
I have taken sleepers and they vary. Once I took an overnight sleeper from Montreal to NY, nearly 50 years ago. We had a compartment with two beds and there was no segregation by sex or anything else. Once I took a single by myself. In Europe I took couchettes, which have double or triple bunks, nothing more than places to lie down, perhaps to doze. They were quite cheap and entirely non-segregated. In those, you just lay down in your street clothes.
The Canadian coast to coast trains certainly have sleepers.
The main intercity rail (the Transkaroo) in SA is a sleeper. No curtains, but totally not segregated.
It really isn’t any more dangerous than non-sleeper compartments, typically six people in a cabin, sitting very close to each other.
It’s not fun, but not dangerous.
It doesn’t really matter whether you’re sitting upright, or you’re lying down on a flat-but-uncomfortable sleeping rack with a curtain, or just leaning back in a recliner* with your eyes closed.
You’re surrounded by other passengers, and there’s no way to escape, so anybody who wants to commit a violent or physical attack would be identified immediately, and arrested at the next stop.
More minor crime, such as pickpocketing, was -and still is- a problem for travellers anywhere in the world.
And sleeping in your street clothes doesn’t cause too many problems with modesty, so there’s no need for segregating by gender.
There really isn’t much difference between a long train ride and a long plane flight.
- (this wasn’t an option on the old train bench-seats, but of course is common on today’s airplane seats)
The type of sleeping car you are referring to was one with “open sections”, and was the least expensive option on North American trains, other than straight coach. There were other, more private accommodations available at escalating expense, scaling up from roomettes (1 person) to double bedrooms and compartments (2 persons) to drawing rooms (three or more).
There wasn’t any particular segregation by gender in the open section cars, and there didn’t seem to be any widely reported problems with that.
Someone already mentioned the “couchettes” used in Europe. I rode one of those overnight Marseille-Paris a couple times. It was six people per compartment, they weren’t particularly comfortable (for one thing, you slept crossways to the train’s motion) and once the bunks were made up, if one was in an upper, it was bloody difficult to get up to go the bathroom without stepping all over the passengers in lower bunks. Also, if they ran the train on a normal schedule, it was actually too fast for a true overnight service: they stopped it on an isolated siding somewhere en route for a couple hours, so that we didn’t arrive in Paris in the pre-dawn hours.
During the '90s, there were stories of couchette passengers being dosed with some kind of knockout gas by criminal gangs and robbed on long-distance overnight trains between France and Italy, but it remains unclear as to how frequently this might have occurred.
I see, thanks for sharing your experiences.
Almost certainly an urban myth, as I expect most anaesthetists would confirm. That much knock-out gas would be expensive and potentially fatal and/or flammable.
As a side note, sleepers are still available on Amtrak. They range from two-bunk roomettes to bigger family roomettes to even bigger units with built-in showers and toilets.
They all have curtains plus some sort of metal/glass door that closes for privacy, now.
That was basically a representation of how things worked. The bunks were not very big; if people changed clothes, it would be inside them (I’ve seen that described as like trying to take off your clothes underneath your bed at home). In Hollywood, everyone changed, but you have to take that with a bit of skepticism.
Cars weren’t segregated by sex (by race is another matter). There were so many people nearby that any attempt at assault would wake them and bring help.
The sleeper cars on the Caledonian Express are quite old. There are two beds to a cabin and over a dozen cabins to a coach. Cabins are segregated by sex. There are also sleeper seats in which you sleep sitting upright in a common coach.
Sorry, forgot to add that they were built in the early 70s.
If this train is rocking, don’t bother knocking!
We have taken couchettes on sleeper trains between Italy (venice, firenze, roma) and Paris (and other points north) repeatedly. First time we did a 4-berth, but since then we’ve taken 6 berths (about half price for the four of us) and had random strangers bunking with us. Kids get the top bunks and parents in the middle (we’re there early and in sleep clothes with teeth brushed already to claim the arrangement) and leave the bottom for the other people. The most common “problem” is the smell of lots of alcohol (and snoring) from at least one passenger.
We say hi and then everyone is quiet until disembarking at final destination. People pay for the sleeping cars to get sleep. If there was any questionable activity, a scream would bring people from 3 couchettes in either direction and that was with more soundproof doors as it is quiet other than the rumble of the tracks- especially in this day and age. Similarly, everyone sleeps with the bags behind them by their feet.
If you wanted to do something illegal, on a train is not a good opportunity.
Other than the train rocking over some bumpy crossings, our sleeping car trips in Europe were pretty uneventful. It’s a good way to save money otherwise spent on a hotel room, and you don’t waste a day travelling - when you wake up, you’re there.
One trip was with a young lady from France who obviously didn’t believe in bathing, but DID believe that heavy perfume would cover up the odor. It didn’t.
The primary defense against mischief is the porters and conductors in the cars. They’re up and walking the hallway, checking incoming passenger tickets and collecting passports for border crossings. We felt very safe in that environment.
I have fond memories of traveling cross-country with the family in a roomette, though my vague recollection of its configuration is nothing like the layouts one sees today according to what I’ve been able to Google. I recall it being a fairly sizable cabin that converted from seating in the daytime to fold-down bed(s) at night, and certainly very cozy to lie in bed and watch the world go by through a picture window!
These pics of the suites in the upcoming new Venice Simplon-Orient Express are interesting. It’s amazing how wide they look, considering that a rail car is normally no more than about 10.5’ wide on the outside, and these would presumably have a corridor along one side so passengers could move around (as confirmed by the fact that they all have windows on only one side – and bummer if that turns out to be the less scenic side!).
oooo. Pullman berths. March, this year, Chiang Mai to Bangkok. 2nd class, A/C, lower of course (it has the window). Yes I change, hate sleeping in my clothes. The steward makes up the berths around 7 pm and the car quiets down right away.
If I book first class, it’s a private compartment with two berths (and a little sink) and the ticket agent makes a note if you are male or female. It’s never mixed sex unless you book as a couple.
The toilets are at the end of the car and are stainless steel everything and include a shower.
Security was never an issue although in Java I did chain my bag to the luggage rack as a precaution. They tended to sell more tickets than seats.
Of course sleeper cars have gone through a number of generations. It is forgotten that the first Pullman Palace Cars we just regular coaches that the porter transformed into sleepers by folding seats up down and around. He then hung blackout curtains and had a sleeper car.
These cars had two doors. One you could open with no problem. The other one let in a huge rush of air that (it is said) sent all the curtains and stuff flying all over.
I took an overnight train in 1992 from Barcelona to Milan, and I was booked into a six-person room that was all males (traveling independently). That’s how the booking system was set up. I remember a similar situation in 1984 on the overnight ferry from Harwich to Hoek von Holland.
Open sections still exist on some trains. They are really quite efficient–during the day, two double seats face each other; above is a convex ceiling. At night, the seats fold down to become a bed, and the ceiling folds down to become a bunk. Everything is curtained off, and the upper bunks get ladders. The washroom is at the end of the car.
I’ve crossed Canada in a roomette. It, too, is a marvel of efficiency–a nice wide chair by day, and a footrest. The footrest folds up to reveal a toilet, the wall folds down to become a bed, and there is a sink in the corner (or a foldaway sink on the wall, depending on the train car used). It was perfect for me–I wanted a little more than an open section, but didn’t need anything bigger than a roomette for one. I certainly didn’t find it cramped.