Looking for a used car, I’ve noticed that the asking prices for high mileage (10+ years old) Jaguars are lower than the prices for other high mileage cars. While I don’t expect British cars of the 80s/90s to necessarily have the reliability of Japanese cars of that era, will the maintenance costs really be that much higher or is this just due to lack of demand? If there are reliability problems, what are the specific trouble areas (i.e., poor engine design; transmission; the infamous Lucas electrics)?
I don’t know a lot about Jags, but I have a “thing” for British cars. My first three cars were MGBs (mom’s '66 and a pair of '77s – all owned concurrently), and I’m having a '66 MGB restored now. Anyway, I assume you’re talking about the XJ6 or XJS?
Cars are funny things. They might start out reasonably-priced, or they might be expensive. What seems to happen is that they are bought because they are what the new owner is looking for. After a few years the repair bills pile up, they get a little ragged around the edges, the engine loses some pep, or they just aren’t stylish anymore. The owner sells the car and it may go through a few owners, its price reduced at every selling. I guess that would be when they’re “middle aged”. Then someone comes along looking for something a little “different”. He can’t afford a new car (at least, not a new model he really wants), so he looks at older ones. “Hey,” he thinks, “I can fix this one up!” Eventually more people have the same idea and a once-popular car becomes popular again, and the price rises. It’s around this stage that you start seeing nice restorations – and some junkyard parts cars. After a while the junkers have been restored or completely cannibalized and the ones still running can be worth a good price. Just try to find a decent E-type convertible for under $30,000! (FWIW, I see a lot of older Porsche 911s on the road along with the new ones. Unfortunately I bought mine before the prices bottomed out, and sold it at a loss.)
Compared to an XJ8 or an S-type, the old XJ6 seems a bit dated. IIRC, they started out in the mid-1970s rather underpowered. They improved in the 1980s and were good for their time. But right now they’re “middle aged”. They can be a bit ragged, and people would rather buy a new model than to put the money into it required for restoration. They’ll probably need to have the engine freshened up (i.e., rebuilt), a good coat of paint (a real paint job – not Maaco), upholstery, and various bits of mechanical work. Depending on where you live, a good paint job will cost at least $2,000. My MGB is smaller than a Jag, and it’s going to cost about $4,000 to paint.
And remember – You’ll be restoring and maintaining a car that “thinks” it costs much more than you pay for it. That’s why someone’s selling it!
If you’re looking to buy an older Jaguar, you might want to pick up a copy of Jaguar Illustrated Buyer’s Guide by Michael L. Cook. This volume gives a brief overview of Jags from the beginning to the late-1990s. You will also want to get a free catalog from Moss Motors, who is one of the best-known sources for British car parts.
British cars are great-looking, fun to drive, expensive to maintain, and sometimes a little quirky. If you get an older Jag like an XJ6 or XJS, it might be another 20 years before anyone seriously considers them a “collector’s item”; but if you like it and want to keep it long-term, it should give you a lot of enjoyment.
Good luck!
{A quick note on MGBs: Apparently the older chrome-bumper examples are becoming hard to find. It seems that the English like to buy good examples – especially from California, where the climate is kind to them – and where most of the production was sold – and ship them back to England. You’re not going to run into that problem with mid-80s Jags, though.)
As someone who spent far far too many hours restoring one of the cantankerous old bastards, can I answer your two questions thusly:
1/ Hell yes.
2/ All of the above.
Another Jaguar driver checking in. My dad used to drive one too and claimed that if you wanted to drive a Jag you had to buy two as one would always be broken.
Here in the UK jags hold their value pretty well upto about 8 years old, then they fall off the cliff.
THis is because they cost a mint to maintain. However by that time you aren’t worried about service history and can use grey market parts.
My XJS is still going strong.
I really really want one of the new XJ8s
S Type R is the way to go.
Yeah, Jags are usually a solid car up until 8-10 year point depending on how you drive and then it just gets nasty. We used to own a Soverign (sp?) and it was a pleasure to drive.
When I had the three MGBs, two were usually running and one was down for maintenance. Sometimes only one woud run, and sometimes all three would. But there was usually one that was not running.
Red flags for jags: first, the tightly-packed engine compartment-that is my replacing a starter costs a fortune. The cars are just so hard to work on-and when you have a 10+ year old car, with corroded nuts and bolts, you will find new meaning in the word “frustration”!
The availability of parts: pre-1990 Jags are very difficult, which is why you see conversion kits so you can use GM alternators, for example.
The original (LUcas) electrical gear is expensive and unreliable. That is why these cars are for the rich-you can go broke just maintaining them!
Okay… I posted this joke in another “English” car thread, but I just can’t help myself.
**Why to the English drink warm beer?
Their refrigerators are made by Lucas.**
Actually, I had good luck with Lucas wiring on my old Spitfire. The rocker panels rusted out, a rear axle fell apart at the inner u-joint yoke and the twin SUs were always trying to foul the plugs (and the parts stores couldn’t match up kits or needles), but the Prince of Darkness didn’t let me down! Also, parts (back around '93) cost little more than parts for Japanese cars.
So, what specifically goes out on Jags? Several of the cars I’ve seen in the trader rags have “rebuilt 400 transmissions.” Are these GM T-400s (and they still wear them out???) The twelves are supposedly hard enough to tune that many owners swap in smallblock Chevies, but “hard to tune” isn’t a very specific description. Do the valves go out of adjustment, does the timing or fuel mixture change or what?
Also, what are the common catastrophic failures? I’m tempted to go back to a Spitfire, even after having an axle fall off on a date (apparently it’s not uncommon.)
Thanks all, and keep 'em coming. I was hoping that a bigger, more expensive car would be more overbuilt and less likely to break. It sounds like this will be just another project though, and I need another project like an alcoholic needs another drink (and for all too similar of reasons.) I’ll probably buy a manual (the Moss site is open in a new window), but it sounds like I need to talk myself out of this one.
You need three:
One in the shop.
One to drive.
One for spare parts.
Before Ford purchased Jaguar, quality was simply horrible (so says a good friend - who is an English mechanic in the USA). In 2002, Forbes magazine said:
“Before Ford bought the line in 1989, Jaguar’s reputation was in shambles. It was nestled next to the Yugo in quality ratings, and its electrical system was joke fodder. Last year it was second in initial quality behind Lexus.”
Regarding Lucas, remember that the deathbed words of Lord Lucas were “Don’t drive in the dark.”
I’ve heard that it takes 50,000 miles for them to work the kinks out of any pre-Ford Jag.
Lucas also denies that they invented darkness. Sudden, unexpected, darkness, however, they take full credit for.