Cecil addresses when does human life begins and states that a logical milestone for the beginning of personhood, “…is the beginning of measurable brain-wave activity, roughly 25 weeks after conception. After all, brain death is now commonly accepted as marking life’s end.”
Ok, but poster Ian Rey refers to studies indicating activity somewhere in the 17-27 week range. Carl Sagan set the line later:
So what is it, 17 weeks, 25 or 30? That’s a pretty broad range after all, covering most of the 2nd trimester.
I see from Ian Rey’s post that bilaterally synchronous EEGs only occur at 26 to 27 weeks. I lack sufficient background to evaluate that.
I dunno I am sure I have met people with no discernable brain waves, who… no you must be right they couldn’t think either.
So when an old person has dementia at some point they become abortable right?
People with dementia still have brainwaves. Where did you get the idea they didn’t? What a bizarre concept.
However, people who are brain dead may not (I’m not sure – maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in). You’re right, brain dead people are “abortable” – that is, removed from life support.
According to How Stuff Works, the legal time of death is, “that time when a physician(s) has determined that the brain and the brain stem have irreversibly lost all neurological function.”
There are a number of tests involved, but one method of confirming brain death involves the EEG. “The patient in the deepest coma will show some EEG electroactivity, while the brain-dead patient will not.”
I am not a doctor, nor have I devoted study to this matter.
I don’t have extra data to add to this, but I suspect Sagan’s answer contains a partial solution - he makes pains to distinguish that “brain waves with regular patterns typical of adult human brains” are happening around week 30. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there was EEG activity at week 17 but not resembling that of a normal, developed human.
You said "I dunno I am sure I have met people with no discernable brain waves, who… no you must be right they couldn’t think either.
So when an old person has dementia at some point they become abortable right? "
It sure sounds to me like you are saying that “at some point” an old person with dementia doesn’t have brainwaves. If that is not what you meant, the second sentence is a non-sequitur.
Ah, gratuitous insults. That’s rarely a good sign.
An elderly person with dementia will continue to have brain wave activity as long as there is life in her body. It doesn’t matter if her disease is so advanced that she lacks thought or even self-awareness. Her brain waves won’t look like they did when she was healthy, but some sort of activity will continue until she dies.
Even an anencephalic infant (born with most of the brain missing) will show brain wave activity.
Yes, the point at which any person is declared dead is the point at which they have no brain waves, according to the How Stuff Works link, though there are other metrics as well.
It sure sounds to me like you are saying that “at some point” an old person with dementia doesn’t have brainwaves.
Exactly, I did say that. Everyone “at some point” doesn’t have brain waves. Don’t get your panties twisted.
Yes, but at the point where you don’t have brainwaves any more, you also don’t have dementia any more, since you don’t have anything any more. Death is the one known surefire cure-all.
Are you trying to suggest that any living person (with or without dementia) does not have brainwaves? If so, you don’t know what you are talking about. If not, then your comment about someone with dementia “at some point” being abortable doesn’t make very much sense, now does it? One doesn’t normally talk about aborting a dead person.
Are you trying to suggest that someone with dementia does not have brain waves??