On Respecting Others' Religious Views

No. Not on a genetic, biologic level. I respect them on that level. For simply being people.

Views are ephemeral. They change with the wind. I don’t take much notice of them.

Respect isn’t a necessary component. I might agree with someone about something - doesn’t mean I respect them. Likewise I might disagree with someone about something - doesn’t mean I don’t respect them.

But in general, to be honest, I don’t really respect anyone. At all. In the whole history of humanity. I don’t see why I should.

“Respect” just seems to be a way of silencing criticism. If I’m faced with a choice between respect and criticism then I choose criticism. I have no respect for “respect”.

If Cecil walked into the room right now I would be friendly, admiring (fawning even, before the great master) but I wouldn’t respect him for his views. His views are his views, he doesn’t need my respect. He can arrive at his views independently of my respect and so therefore my respect is unnecessary, redundant.

What does my respect achieve? Nothing. So why bother with it? Likewise I don’t need Cecil’s respect. I will form my views anyway.

Are you Science Girl and castaway’s third triplet?

BTW, we do change on a biological level.

That is your perogative.

Respect doesn’t have anything to do with forming or holding views.

And your ideas are those of a doody-head! Yeah, that’s productive. :rolleyes:

Keep in mind there are several LDS on this board, and it’s difficult to be polite to us while mocking our beliefs. Indeed, your post qualifies more as a drive-by. You want to discuss LDS beliefs? Take it to another thread and back up your claims. I suspect you don’t know them very well.

Have to go with emarkp here. I’ve had Mormon friends, and while myself and my other friends mocked them relentlessly, well, they also mocked me for being Mexican, it’s what we did - anyway, the point is, most churches, LDS included, do a great deal of community service, and that I do respect, whether or not their founder was insane. :wink:

To be a tad more constructive, the term “respect” has degraded in usage IMO. In this context, it really should be in the context of “I respectfully disagree”. It’s part of being civil–that is, we don’t call each other doody-heads when we disagree. If all people in a conversation can reason with clarity, there is room for debate, and room for multiple opinions. In order to function, we have to keep the discussion “respectful”.

That doesn’t mean that you hold someone’s beliefs in high-esteem, it means you don’t belittle him if you disagree.

Religious discussions are fundamentally impossible to conclude with pure logic and empirical investigation, because most modern belief systems don’t have falsifiable claims. For instance, I believe that Jesus Christ died and was resurrected–a most remarkable claim. It’s not something I can prove scientifically, but then I don’t propose it as science (nor am I a young-earth creationist for instance). I claim to have experienced revelation of the divine, and hence know for myself Christ’s divinity. When I share that with others, I don’t try to convince them, I merely present my experience and invite them to try to experience it themselves, and act on the results of that attempt. If he doesn’t have the same experience as I do, I don’t browbeat him into agreement. And if he isn’t interested in investigating what I believe, I don’t ridicule him for it (even though I think he’s missing something good and important). The simple fact that there is disagreement doesn’t indicate anything about mental capacity or anything of that nature.

For insance, noting Zagadka’s location, I’ll point to my UCB degree in CS and note that an institution he may respect seems to think I’m capable of thinking logically, irrespective of the sanity of Joseph Smith. :slight_smile:

In addition to being unproductive, it is dangerous to disregard those you disagree with. gobear for instance not only dismisses Libertarian in the referenced thread, he goes beyond that and makes a ludicrous assertion, namely that God doesn’t exist. And self-respecting thinking person should acknowledge that knowing such a fact is impossible. At best you can claim you don’t know, or that you don’t believe. But an open assertion that God doesn’t exist is simply indefensible.

It’s this lack of civility that I think is the single greatest danger to the world today. It’s the source of the incredibly partisan politics going on in the world, threatening to destabilize the civilized world. (The SDMB is a perfect microcosm of that world today–it’s the primary reason I hesitated in signing up for the new pay-system.)

sigh

No you don’t. You just think you believe that.

You can take that all the way to the Pit. As it turns out, I am in fact the world’s authority on what I believe.

Feel free to go back to reading Bill Bryson.

Who are you to determine what people believe? Who are you to take away that right to believe any crazy shite someone wants to because you don’t agree with it?

You weren’t kidding when you said you don’t respect people - that apparently extends to their rights.

thought matrix, memes, belief systems - people get caught up in them.

Is it a coincidence that religions tend to group together geographically? Or is it that belief systems/memes tend to propogate from one person to their neighbour and on to their children? So geographical proximity would seem to be a factor in the spread of belief systems.

Are you saying that ALL of the people within the geographical field of any particular belief system are convinced of all the arguments? Or is it possible that a lot of people are just guilty of lazy thinking and never bother to explore other avenues?

People can believe what they like, I don’t care. That’s my whole point. I don’t want to stop anyone believing anything. Should that translate to respect? Doesn’t compute.

By the way, zagadka, I’m not a nazi, I’m an anarchist. Maybe you hate us both the same but at least get your terms right.

I’ve read. I’ve read a chunk of the BoM (horrendous). I’ve read some apologetics on the Web. Mormonism is, quite simply, the bottom of the belief-system barrel. I recognize that you are fine, moral people with a great attitude toward life. Your sense of community is superb. I like the Saints I have met. But no, Mormonism is quite beyond the pale of topics I will discuss seriously. Ain’t worth the pixels.

Until very recently in cultural history with the advent of mass communications, no. In fact, it is pretty obvious - ideas could only spread as far as you could shout.

Geographical proximity has nothing to do with it. Exposure to communication does.

Who said anything about that?

Yes you do. You got frustrated and expressed anger at someone who believed something other than what you profess.

I never claimed you are a Nazi, nor did I claim to hate you, or anarchists, or Nazis. In fact, I don’t hate anyone, but the fact that you presume hatred speaks volumes for how you view people, much less how you expect people to feel about you.

Why do you think that I should hate anarchists?

It is just a belief structure for people who don’t understand how human psychology and sociology work. I don’t hate that, though I may disagree with it, and people are free to prescribe to it to their heart’s content. However, if you are going to spend your life getting frustrated with people who don’t agree with you about Jesus, then you aren’t going to make a very good anarchist. Maybe a good deconstructionist.

Duh! We’re dealing with God here. The maximum speed at which God can spread an idea is not limited to how loud humans can shout. The maximum speed at which a meme can spread is, on the other hand, limited to how loud a human can shout.

So, with religions, it looks to me as though we’re dealing with a meme rather than with the word of God, n’est pas?

Frustrated and angry?

[mission impossible]You’ve never seen me angry[/mission impossible]

You’re relying on rather outdated definitions of “religion,” largely restricted to Judeo-Christian beliefs. Theology has evolved a bit since 786 BC, and many people now believe that god in whatever true form manifests itself through different cultures differently, or at the very least, it is perceived differently. The fact that humanity, spread across the globe, out of contact with each other, developed relatively similar concepts of religion and morality seems to support this theology. Neither is it necessary that god makes any appearances or speaks to anyone in a physical sense.

Religion does not necessarily mean big-guy-in-the-sky and damning everyone who disagrees, though it can mean that. It can mean quite a number of things.

Well, that certainly frees you from actually backing that assertion up–at least enough to let you fling ad hominem around like so much dung.

The problem is that typically, people who have strong belief’s, tend to think that everyone else should believe similarly. Like GWB, you’re either with me or against me. From the religious perspective, non-believers often get attacked (physically, verbally or mentally), ostracized socially, excluded from work opportunities and so on.

I don’t have a problem with what people want to believe - as long as they keep their belief’s to themselves and don’t try to forcibly foist them on me or others. Don’t preach at me that I am going to go to hell because I don’t share your belief in your particular god (I don’t care, I just don’t want to hear it), don’t patronize me by expressing sorrow for me because I don’t’ believe the same as you do, don’t try to teach something like creationism in public schools (which belongs instead in bible class, Sunday school or parochial school), don’t force me to pledge my allegiance to something “under god” or risk being called a communist or unpatriotic, don’t try to stop woman employees from getting an abortion or using birth control pills because it is against your religious belief’s, etc.

If people didn’t try to make others believe as they do, this world would be a much better place to live in. If you want respect (or to put it another way, no one challenging your belief’s), then keep your beliefs to yourself.

Amen to that, iamme99

Wow, in the second sentence you totally contradict yourself in regards to the first. Funny, funny stuff.

Of course, I “respectfully” disagree and say that the Idea that a god exists is the ludicrious one. And claiming that God doesn’t exist is no different fundementally than asserting that he/she does. So your last few sentences hold true for yourself as well as us godless heathens.

Zagadka: Funny how you should think that all religions are “similar.” Have you even studied all the religions? Christianity developed in the Middle east and spread outward, how is it odd that other people in the middle east have similar beliefs (I guess you are referring to Islam and Judaism, since they are the only base religions that are similar). Or do you truely think budhism is so similar to christianity?

No, it means a bunch of self-righteous people with bibles and starchy suits on Sunday damning everybody that disagrees with them. And many times damning people just because they are cranky- Have you ever worked with the public on sundays after church gets let out? A pack of starving and pissed off badgers couldn’t be more feral.

Now, why is it OK for you to say that God exists, but not OK for Gobear to say that he doesn’t?

Some people here seems to be confusing “respect for the person” with “respect for the religion.” I have plenty of respect for people who believe in God, but I have no respect for that religious belief they hold. I am a skeptical agnostic, and find the “I just know god exists” argument to be childish and delusional. That doesn’t mean I think evil should befall those that believe. But I have no respect for religion. And I can separate the person from the belief (even though some believers don’t think so).

I do understand what you mean by that, but people view things on account of the way they are. It is impossible for me not to believe in God without denying my own experience. I am the life I have led. I am who am I. I can no more deny my faith in God than a gay man can deny his attraction to other men. I simply have the faith. It simply is there inside me. I can understand why it might not seem that way to you, just as a gay man can understand that you are not attracted to other men. Believing is not something I decided to do. It is what I experience.