[QUOTE=ivan astikov]
Do we have little information because it was more likely never recorded, or because it has been lost, and in Jesus’s case, if his birth was such an important event, how come he never had some sort of protector assigned to him? Did Jesus not perform any teenage miracles? Wouldn’t the facts of his childhood life be of any interest to a biblical scholar? Was nobody interested in what drove this man to become the historical figure he is?
[/QUOTE]
In the case of Eleanor and Jane Grey, it was not worth recording the childhood of a girl - even one in line for a throne. Also, many of the records that we believe to have existed have disappeared (we believe them to have existed because they are referenced in other places). Its frustrating to know, for instance, that Jane Austen wrote a ton of letters to her sister Cassandra, but Cassandra burned most of them when Jane died - so we have only the sketchiest information about Jane’s life, much of it - like Jesus’ life, information collected by people who were writing years after her death. Often Historians put together information about people from the unlikeliest sources - i.e. we might know that such and such a person was at such and such place during this time because we have records of clothing purchases - you might have information like that about a royal household, but you won’t have that sort of information for ordinary people. Most people don’t keep their receipts.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
You and Carol Stream seem to be the only ones with your bowels in an uproar. The debate has been moving along just fine.
[/QUOTE]
If you ignore the points being made, you can certainly claim that. You might want to check the OP, though.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
See above. You need to get your sensitivity meter checked. It’s in overdrive.
[/QUOTE]
The problem is not my sensitivity to any religion or religious icon, it’s to dumbass rude liars who claim to want to have a civilized debate and insist on insulting an entire religion in the process. :rolleyes: I admit to also having a strong aversion to douchbags, which you have revealed yourself to be.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I’m minimizing his importance. If you don’t understand the symbolism even after it’s been pointed out to you, I can’t help you.Christianity doesn’t relate to atheism. That’s the point. That’s the debate.
[/QUOTE]
Now read the fucking OP, moron. The title could have a laser pointing to your hollow cranium. YOU are the indicative of the problem with religious debate. And it’s just like some immature little dick with a chip on his shoulder to say “I’m protesting” then run around with his fingers in his ears saying “la, la, la, la, I’m protesting” when the childishness and the rudeness and the self-defeating aspect to that silly protest is pointed out. And your “protest” claim is only half true. You already admitted that you simply do it out of spite, you lying, backpedaling sack of shit.
Tahssa: That was fascinating! But you know what I’m going to ask you… where’s part 2, Jesus: The Teenage Years? Seriously though, if these events were recorded, you wouldn’t expect him to avoided interest for the rest of his childhood, up until his adulthood. Would he have been sent away to study and learn to accept his being, assuming everything that was described in your link was true?
Some of the apocrypha has stories about Jesus’ childhood. There’s some great stories in there, too. Jesus showing off his powers to impress other kids – exactly the kind of thing you’d expect.
I think everyone’s claims of dickishness are exaggerated. What percentage of the atheists on the SDMB are actually, with any frequency, dicks to theists? And vice versa?
A pretty darn low number, I’d say. It’s just that they’re the ones who everyone notices.
(Oh, and Kalhoun: your argument would make sense if “Jesus Christ” were capitalized only because he had a special place in our language… if there were special tenses and grammatical rules and capitalization rules that applied only to Christianity, or only to religion. In that case, I would find it a quite reasonable little minor protest to refuse to follow those special rules, but instead you are going out of you way to violate a universal rule in one special case. Thus, it’s clear that you are (as you admit) just doing it to piss people off. You may think that the result is that, oh, those religious people don’t know how to handle it when their sacred cows are gored, and you are counting coup upon them with your brilliant and irrelevant deconstructivist act of linguistic heresy, or what have you, but really it just makes you seem petulant… just like someone who entered a political debate and refused to capitalized the names of any Republicans.)
(Oh, and also Kalhoun: I think your argument about good and bad done in the name of religion was on shaky ground… if a minister speaks to his flock and says “we should all pitch in and help the victims of the earthquake” and lots of people donate cans, well, how do we know what motivated him? How do we know what motivated his congregants? How many of them are decent enough folks who would generally do good things but do MORE good things because they’re part of a community spurring them along? I just don’t see how that’s any different than bad things done in the name of religion.)
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
How do we know what motivated his congregants? How many of them are decent enough folks who would generally do good things but do MORE good things because they’re part of a community spurring them along?
[/QUOTE]
Max–Do decent people really need to be instructed to behave decently?
If so, tell you what: find me a group of decent people who require reminders to behave decently, and I will volunteer to send them weekly e-mails exhorting them to behave with decency, to be generous to those who need their help, to be kind to their neighbors, to treat their families with respect, to refrain from kicking their dogs, etc.
This will also help me, because it will be my act of decency, so it’s win-win all around. To sweeten the deal, I will save them time by refraining tfrom telling them all about my own system of spiritual beliefs, which mostly involve licking the anus of Satan by the light of the full moon. All they have to do is stop going to church, since they can count on me for the weekly exhortation stuff. Deal?
[QUOTE=magellan01]
If you ignore the points being made, you can certainly claim that. You might want to check the OP, though.
[/QUOTE]
I’m being civil. You’re the one who can’t seem to get a civil word out of your mouth. Your sense of outrage is so disproportionate to my actions that I have to wonder if you’re in need of some sort of medical attention.
So far, the only skill you’ve exhibited is in calling names. You’re frothing at the mouth like some lunatic nut job over my style choice. It’s rather frightening. Newsflash: You’re blowing it out of proportion. I hope I’m not forced to go underground like Rushdie did.
You’ve drawn more attention to my gripe than I could have ever hoped for. I was subtle. You are an ad on the side of the Sears Tower.
By the way, if I said it was a protest AND I said I did it to annoy people, then it’s COMPLETELY true; dumb fuck.
[QUOTE=cricetus]
Some of the apocrypha has stories about Jesus’ childhood. There’s some great stories in there, too. Jesus showing off his powers to impress other kids – exactly the kind of thing you’d expect.
[/QUOTE]
Regarding the “great respect for certain believers”, that’s not only irrelevant to an atheist, but is also not my understanding of the reason for the practice of omitting the “o”. According to Judaism 101:
Quote:
Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.
:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
If you don’t ascribe to the practice of writing G-d, because your belief system does not abhor the defacement of the name of the deity, the only reason to do so is out of respect for certain believers.
Again, this is about context for me. In a discussion with an observant person in writing, such as on a message board, I try not to deliberatly fuck them off by messing with what is, essentially, a stroke on a keyboard to me. In an essay on historical Judaism, I certainly adhere to the G-d text, because it is relevant and appropriate. However, if I am actively trying to take the piss out of someone, I might be tempted to mess with the gramatical conventions of their faith. I seriously don’t think it’s a big deal, though. Failure to capitlize the deity’s name in a discussion about the existence of God is one way of stating “Hey, I’m atheist! No, seriously! I’m really an atheist!”
What if you made a habit of writing “the Judeo-Christian god” in discussions of religion, to distinguish the concept from the deity or deities of other religions?
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
What if you made a habit of writing “the Judeo-Christian god” in discussions of religion, to distinguish the concept from the deity or deities of other religions?
[/QUOTE]
Nah, it’d have to be “the judeo-christian god.” Just to keep the atheist cred.
.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Until he drops the “son of god” moniker (which is only perpetuated by people who actually believe that) I see no reason to treat him as a “man.” Christians certainly don’t!
[/QUOTE]
When someone tells me “You da man!” I say no, I’m just A man. Jesus was “The” Man.
When I think of Jesus I think that one man CAN make a difference. Everybody’s always flappin’ their lips about “I did this” or “I can do that”. Yeah. Whatever. Put up or shut up, bitch. Walk the walk with your head held high then we’ll see.
Kalhoun ,
If you don’t want to pay Him respect then don’t. I’m sure it’s just fine by Him.
You be sure I walk tall and proud whenever I think of Him.
[QUOTE=cricetus]
Some of the apocrypha has stories about Jesus’ childhood. There’s some great stories in there, too. Jesus showing off his powers to impress other kids – exactly the kind of thing you’d expect.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but is there the “The MY dad can beat up YOUR dad” type stories?
[QUOTE=Omegaman]
When someone tells me “You da man!” I say no, I’m just A man. Jesus was “The” Man.
When I think of Jesus I think that one man CAN make a difference. Everybody’s always flappin’ their lips about “I did this” or “I can do that”. Yeah. Whatever. Put up or shut up, bitch. Walk the walk with your head held high then we’ll see.
Kalhoun ,
If you don’t want to pay Him respect then don’t. I’m sure it’s just fine by Him.
You be sure I walk tall and proud whenever I think of Him.
[/QUOTE]
Can someone explain the “respect” thing to me? Tell me how I’m “disrespecting” anyone by opting against the capitalization of jesus’s name. It’s not you I’m disrespecting. It’s the concept of christianity. You recognize that not everyone feels the same way you do about religion, don’t you? Are we having an open discussion or aren’t we?
What harm is being done to you by my choice to not capitalize words that I feel are given a false sense of importance? This is a serious question. Do you feel that real harm has been done to you or are you just a little pissed off that I believe that your faith is a lie? Is it fear? I’m asking someone to attempt to articulate what could drum up so much rage that someone would want me to be formally admonished or publically bullied for “lower casing” christ.
Seriously though, if these events were recorded, you wouldn’t expect him to avoided interest for the rest of his childhood, up until his adulthood. Would he have been sent away to study and learn to accept his being, assuming everything that was described in your link was true?
