On the SDMB, why do atheists and theists have to be such utter dicks to each other?

The BBQ Pit
101

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Well, the church of christ marginalizes gays, and the quakers, while a nice, peaceful bunch of folks, are cherry-picking christians. We can all find good things in christ’s teachings (not that he invented goodness or anything). They flatly deny any of the less-savory teachings of christ, calling him all-loving. That is simply not true, for if christ was all-loving, there would be no pre-requisite of belief in order to go to heaven. There would be no penalty for non-belief. So…emotional terrorism seems to be present in all forms of christianity. And if it isn’t, then the whole business becomes rather pointless, doesn’t it?
[/QUOTE]

Your deliberate lack of capitalization of proper nouns makes you look like a petulant idiot-child, just so you know.

102

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
I would like **Der Trihs ** to learn to quit blanket-generalizing everything he doesn’t like or agree with, ie, religion, particularly Christianity, which, while having a history mired in violence like every other religion, has actually grown up, shed it’s Crusader/Heretic past for the most part and tipped the balance in favor of good through their works and deeds for people in need.

But he’ll never deviate from his MO, ever.
[/QUOTE]

Grown up a bit? What does that mean? Were they mistaken in the things they did in the name of God then or now?

103

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Exactly. It’s still grossly stupid and evil.
[/QUOTE]

The only evil I’ve personally seen from Christianity is in history books. But the huge amount of Christian-based charities do a yeoman’s load of good deeds for less privledged peoples of the world.

As far as calling it stupid to believe in a religion, I understand that, you’re an atheist, that’s cool.

But to completely ignore the good that Christian churches do worldwide is just as stupid.

Religion aside, what country or empire hasn’t had a history (either past or present) that isn’t soiled with killing, imperialism, intolerance, etc?

Railing against the inhumanity of something that occurred in the past doesn’t do a lot of good now in the present, especially when the organization at hand (Christian churches) has largely changed the way it operates and is more adherent to the true values inherent in Christianity, which is to help others.

Just for clarification, I am not a practicing Christian, and I don’t really hold what could be called conventional views about God and Jesus Christ, so it isn’t like I really have a personal axe to grind here.

104

[QUOTE=Don’t fight the hypothetical]
Grown up a bit? What does that mean? Were they mistaken in the things they did in the name of God then or now?
[/QUOTE]

Well, when I followed “grown up” with “shaken off it’s Crusader/Heretic past” I thought it was pretty clear what I meant.

As in, no more Inquisitions, no more Crusades, no more burning witches, you know, all the vile and stupid shit SOME Christians USED to do in the name of God.

And yes, they were mistaken then. And continue to make mistakes today, just not of the “join our religion or be killed” stripe.

105

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Well, when I followed “grown up” with “shaken off it’s Crusader/Heretic past” I thought it was pretty clear what I meant.

As in, no more Inquisitions, no more Crusades, no more burning witches, you know, all the vile and stupid shit SOME Christians USED to do in the name of God.

And yes, they were mistaken then. And continue to make mistakes today, just not of the “join our religion or be killed” stripe.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

106

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
As in, no more Inquisitions, no more Crusades, no more burning witches, you know, all the vile and stupid shit SOME Christians USED to do in the name of God.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, these days those same types of Christians do all kinds of new vile and stupid shit, like beating up those heathen homosexuals.

107

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
While not as brutal as it once was, I do not agree that the scales are tipped to the “good” column. Not by a long shot.
[/QUOTE]

Of course not. Not if you are going to get to define religion to your own standards, marginalize the good its done, and exaggerate the bad. You are as guilty - or guiltier - of cherry picking as the Quakers. At least they cherry pick in order to define THEMSELVES - you cherry pick to define and judge others.

The conservative religions get all the press - they are defining the terms of the debate. And we are giving them that when we don’t emphasize the middle and define everything as ends of the spectrum. Theism isn’t going anywhere - there are some people who have an emotional need to believe. Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to acknowledge and claim a reasonable (if not completely rational), productive, and “good” middle ground rather than “kill them all and let God sort it out.” You don’t win over people by pissing them off - and you don’t change culture without winning people over.

There are incredible shades of believe between “no” and “fundamentalism.” And I think thats the ground the vast majority of people stand on. Most religious people I know are good people. They may hold opinions I don’t agree with, or have beliefs I find irrational - but irrational does not equal evil. And I don’t think there is anyone who doesn’t hold dear at least one irrational emotional belief.

108

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
Yes, these days those same types of Christians do all kinds of new vile and stupid shit, like beating up those heathen homosexuals.
[/QUOTE]

And PLEASE continue to pit and condemn people who do vile and stupid shit - in the name of religion, or politics, or because they are cruel. But “all religious people” do not beat up heathen homosexuals. Some religious people ARE heathen homosexuals, and quite happy to be so. (ETA: I know you made the “same types” disclaimer - I’m not picking on you, more agreeing with you.)

109

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Exactly. It’s still grossly stupid and evil.
[/QUOTE]

As opposed to what, Trihs? You? You’re a walking talking argument for Sunday School.

You know what I’d like to see just once, Trihs? I’d like to see you take that huge standard you measure religion against and use it on yourself. I’m curious to see how you’d stack up against the standards you impose on believers.

A lot of those theists you call murderers, idiots, and fools have good jobs. They’re doctors and teachers and public defenders. They help people. They have families too. Good families, whose children are going to grow up and contribute. They’re going to help people, too. Others are going to be glad they were there. Now you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, especially because I don’t give a shit, but when’s the last time someone IRL was glad you were around?

Maybe if you put down the sci-fi and video games, maybe if you actually did something constructive with your life, people would listen to you, especially if while actually doing something, you managed to learn how not to suck.

Of course, that would involve imposing the standards you’ve created for the rest of the world on yourself. It would involve not being a coward hiding behind a messageboard. It would involve not bitching about how bad you had it in high school (and btw, Trihs, I’ll match my high school scars against yours any time you want to discuss it). It would involve being an adult instead of a middle-aged kid.

You’re 40 years old, Trihs. It’s time to grow up.

110

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Of course not. Not if you are going to get to define religion to your own standards, marginalize the good its done, and exaggerate the bad. You are as guilty - or guiltier - of cherry picking as the Quakers. At least they cherry pick in order to define THEMSELVES - you cherry pick to define and judge others.

The conservative religions get all the press - they are defining the terms of the debate. And we are giving them that when we don’t emphasize the middle and define everything as ends of the spectrum. Theism isn’t going anywhere - there are some people who have an emotional need to believe. Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to acknowledge and claim a reasonable (if not completely rational), productive, and “good” middle ground rather than “kill them all and let God sort it out.” You don’t win over people by pissing them off - and you don’t change culture without winning people over.

There are incredible shades of believe between “no” and “fundamentalism.” And I think thats the ground the vast majority of people stand on. Most religious people I know are good people. They may hold opinions I don’t agree with, or have beliefs I find irrational - but irrational does not equal evil. And I don’t think there is anyone who doesn’t hold dear at least one irrational emotional belief.
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At the risk of violating secular sensibilities, Amen.

111

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]

People do evil and stupid things all the time in the name of religion that they’d NEVER do without religion, for the simple reason that there’s no other motivation to do them.
[/QUOTE]

Such as?..

112

[QUOTE=Linty Fresh]
As opposed to what, Trihs? You? You’re a walking talking argument for Sunday School.

You know what I’d like to see just once, Trihs? I’d like to see you take that huge standard you measure religion against and use it on yourself. I’m curious to see how you’d stack up against the standards you impose on believers.

A lot of those theists you call murderers, idiots, and fools have good jobs. They’re doctors and teachers and public defenders. They help people. They have families too. Good families, whose children are going to grow up and contribute. They’re going to help people, too. Others are going to be glad they were there. Now you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, especially because I don’t give a shit, but when’s the last time someone IRL was glad you were around?

Maybe if you put down the sci-fi and video games, maybe if you actually did something constructive with your life, people would listen to you, especially if while actually doing something, you managed to learn how not to suck.

Of course, that would involve imposing the standards you’ve created for the rest of the world on yourself. It would involve not being a coward hiding behind a messageboard. It would involve not bitching about how bad you had it in high school (and btw, Trihs, I’ll match my high school scars against yours any time you want to discuss it). It would involve being an adult instead of a middle-aged kid.

You’re 40 years old, Trihs. It’s time to grow up.
[/QUOTE]

Hear, hear.

113

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Well, when I followed “grown up” with “shaken off it’s Crusader/Heretic past” I thought it was pretty clear what I meant.
[/QUOTE]

No biggie, but I don’t feel as if they’ve shaken off being heretics, not by a long shot. YMMV.

114

[QUOTE=Fuji]
Such as?..
[/QUOTE]

So, all those cross-burning Klansmen are burning crosses because that T-shape has the best pyrological properties?

115

[QUOTE=Fuji]
Such as?..
[/QUOTE]

Post #56 for starters. Maybe religion played a part in 9/11? Do you really need a list?

116

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
So, all those cross-burning Klansmen are burning crosses because that T-shape has the best pyrological properties?
[/QUOTE]

His assertion was: “People do evil and stupid things all the time in the name of religion that they’d NEVER do without religion, for the simple reason that there’s no other motivation to do them.”

I would assert that in the absence of Christianity, those same Klansmen would still be trying to intimidate and dehumanize other out-groups.

117

[QUOTE=Linty Fresh]
As opposed to what, Trihs? You? You’re a walking talking argument for Sunday School.

You know what I’d like to see just once, Trihs? I’d like to see you take that huge standard you measure religion against and use it on yourself. I’m curious to see how you’d stack up against the standards you impose on believers.

A lot of those theists you call murderers, idiots, and fools have good jobs. They’re doctors and teachers and public defenders. They help people. They have families too. Good families, whose children are going to grow up and contribute. They’re going to help people, too. Others are going to be glad they were there. Now you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, especially because I don’t give a shit, but when’s the last time someone IRL was glad you were around?

Maybe if you put down the sci-fi and video games, maybe if you actually did something constructive with your life, people would listen to you, especially if while actually doing something, you managed to learn how not to suck.

Of course, that would involve imposing the standards you’ve created for the rest of the world on yourself. It would involve not being a coward hiding behind a messageboard. It would involve not bitching about how bad you had it in high school (and btw, Trihs, I’ll match my high school scars against yours any time you want to discuss it). It would involve being an adult instead of a middle-aged kid.

You’re 40 years old, Trihs. It’s time to grow up.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, come on. Just ask him to kill himself already, would ya? This is the sort of ad hominem rant that discredits the speaker far more than it does the object of the rant. It’s tantamount to admitting that you have no real argument against what’s he asserting, so you’re going to show him you’re a better man than he is and that should settle that. It’s incredibly weak.

Did I actually read the argument that many of the people DT rails against are okay because they “have good jobs”? Did a paycheck become a shield against criticism while I wasn’t looking?

118

[QUOTE=Don’t fight the hypothetical]
Post #56 for starters. Maybe religion played a part in 9/11? Do you really need a list?
[/QUOTE]

I would agree that it played a part in 9/11. A part.

I do believe that there were other important considerations, such as US foreign policy, as bin-Laden himself would no doubt confirm.

119

[QUOTE=Fuji]
I would assert that in the absence of Christianity, those same Klansmen would still be trying to intimidate and dehumanize other out-groups.
[/QUOTE]

I doubt that; their motives seem to be entirely Biblically-based. Can you name a single atheist Klansman?

120

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
I doubt that; their motives seem to be entirely Biblically-based. Can you name a single atheist Klansman?
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps it is because they are gutless shitheads that they seek to cloak their misdeeds with Biblical justification.

Are you trying to argue that if not for their ostensible Christianity, they would not be violent racists?