I haven’t given my bespoke solution to any of them. Which one am I doing?
You also realize that I was offering a solution that performs better than political action at alleviating predation. I was not offering a solution that brings sunshine and rainbows. Would you still like to proceed?
I’m sure he has a bespoke solution for each one. I believe for black slaves in the South it’s “Wait it out. Slavery can’t last forever”.
Eta: lol, that was a simulpost. Didn’t actually see him use the word “bespoke”.
Pick any one you like.
Proceed. Deliver any one of them from predation. Political action, sunshine and rainbows not required.
OK. If we are moving from facts to fantasy, there is no point to a discussion.
Indeed. I see little need to all this to continue if it’s just going to be ‘you first, no you first’.
If I don’t see some real debate, this thing’ll be closed.
The purpose of this thread was to talk about any feelings of vitriol and hatred Dopers have had due to recent politics, how this has affected their lives, how this is affecting the country, and what it says about the country. I think there’s been some good discussion and debate about that earlier, and hopefully we can get back to that rather than close the thread.
Hear hear.
I happened to watch this Lynyrd Skynyrd doc last night (really good, btw) that showed footage of 60’s civil rights protests and counter-protests. I was struck by how the counter-protesters not only had signage promoting segregation, but also lots of of all-American generic patriotic stuff as well. As if sticking to the system they knew and trusted was somehow more patriotic than changing it. And obviously they were pretty vitriolic about it.
Not very different from today, in other words. Forget about race and immigration. How is “making coal great again” (as one random example) more American and patriotic than transitioning to renewable energy?
So, the connection between vitriol, empty patriotism and resistance to change goes at least as far back as the 60s.
I read a post by a Trump supporter recently on Facebook who pointed out that the Romans used to say, “In wine, there is truth,” and said that Trump was the “wine” that made Americans on the left and right expose who they really are on the inside. Now that the pretense is gone, the vitriol is out because people finally can acknowledge each other’s true motives, and they see that there is little motive or reason for compromise. It’s gone from “how can we find a mutual win-win solution?” to “how can we screw you over for maximum gratification to ourselves?”
As vitriolic as I feel about Trump & Minion most days, I do not feel the desire to “screw over” people who voted for him. Even while I consider many of them to be short-sighted idiots, what I’d like most is for them to have good jobs that are part of the new economy, to have universal healthcare so a serious illness doesn’t destroy them economically, to have their kids educated and have affordable options for college, to have them feel invested in their futures. But we can’t have that because with that orange fucking menace in the white house, we can’t have a normal conversation about having nice things and how to go about making sure everybody gets to enjoy them.
Interesting idea but I think it’s exactly wrong. Maybe I’m hopelessly naive, but I honestly don’t think we’re a nation of warring ideologies that loathe each other. I think we’re mostly a nation of people who would prefer a more peaceful co-existence, but the fragmentation of mass media makes the voices of vitriol ™ louder and easier to accept than the voices of sanity.
The voices of vitriol have a longer and nastier history on the right, IMO. If Trump has had any effect, it’s in making the left realize they had to fight back the same way to survive. Unfortunately, we kind of suck at it.
It’s true. For a long time, both sides have pretended that conservatives aren’t authoritarian fascists. Trump helped us all admit this isn’t true. Hooray for both sides.
I agree with this. Further, I think that deep seated anxiety about fiscal safety is a remnant of the Great Recession. It happened in our lifetimes, and I think there’s a lingering fear underneath all of the tension. Fear can drive people to make poor or different choices than they might have previously. I can see that “the government failed us” easily becomes “send something up there to break the Machine.” Fear also makes people angrier and more strident.
But if you ask conservatives, would they say ***they ***are the authoritarian fascists, or the liberals? For vitriol purposes, all that matters is how people feel, not whether their feelings are right.
The great con job of the modern era has been convincing white, Christian, middle-class Americans that they are the oppressed class, and that liberals and progressives are the tyrants taking away their freedoms. Makes me vitriolic just thinking about it.
They’d *say *“no u”, as usual. But they couldn’t back it up if pressed.
No, both sides don’t do it. :rolleyes: Only one is motivated by wanting to screw the other.
Sadly, I don’t think that’s true anymore. Last November I voted straight D, even though I feared Illinois Ds would mismanage the state’s finances even worse than they have been while Rs might have provided needed balance. Why? Because I now associate any R with Trump and his followers, and I want nothing more than to see them be cast into the incinerator of history.
Granted, I see abolishing the current R culture as a means to an end (a healthier country), not an end in itself. But I’m sure most Rs would say the same thing.
It’s a positive step for those expressing intense vitriol against opponents to regret the state of affairs that’s made them hate their fascist, socialist, racist, anti-Constitutional, genocidal fellow Americans.
We progress.
Wrong. All sides want power. You honestly think, for example, Sen. Warren is as far left as she currently portrays herself? Not a chance in hell. She just knows that pandering to that group of voters gives her a chance to get more power.
It’s a bit like the highest ranking clergy in religious orders. You think they believe all the words they preach? :dubious: