Dude, you sound like my grandmother. Want a drink, doll?
Are psychologists authorized to diagnose diseases?
No such thing as an accepted definition of drinking problem. The AA definition would not square with the legal, court definition or the medical definition. I am sure the medical definition is a variable depending what doctor you talk to. It almost boils down to personal definitions. Nor do I claim a percentage. i do claim there are people who have found ways to handle alcohol in later in life. But they would not appear in any statistics, since they would not encounter the police, doctors or AA.
So, depending on whose definition you use, it might be possible that the majority of the populace can handle a drinking problem? I find the problem with threads about this subject is that we are trying to get the facts about something without first defining what it is we are looking for. Each poster who uses the words “alcoholic” and “alcoholism” are for the most part using a personal definition that probably doesn’t match the definition of the next poster responding.
AA is a great place to go to do exactly what it is for- to self-brainwash using proven clinical tools to change one’s personality to one that does not seek alcohol.
It is a cult by most definitions, and only barely scrapes by the rest of the definitions by not ‘requiring’ the belief in any **actual **god- any ‘higher power’ is acceptable, whether you convince yourself that is a doorknob or a group of people, or a deity.
I really like it for what it is and what it does, if you have people who are indeed being honest. Some groups will not admit that it is, in effect, a brainwashing program, but if you have ever looked up captivity brainwashing, this is just a voluntary version.
I was sober for nearly 7 years by using AA techniques, and stopped when I felt like it. I didn’t drink because I had no need to spend money for something that really wasn’t a need… and I was poor. I had no problem getting dates or love, and people really respect you when you tell them that you just don’t need to drink to have a good time. Much more than they respect you drinking a beer- hell, that just makes you normal.
You might piss people who think they themselves might be alcoholics (but don’t want to admit it) off, because why can’t they stop if you can? That is another reason to find a different circle of friends.
Right now I mostly don’t drink, as I have found that I tend to drink unhealthily most of the time. I do drink, however, socially (meaning I don’t get a buzz, or perhaps, at most, a light-headedness) on occasion. This is ‘healthy’ drinking, and is pretty much pointless in my opinion.
I get drunk when I feel like getting ripped, and it just isn’t all that much fun anymore, and after getting used to not drinking, it is expensive! Ouch!
Bottom line is, you need to figure out what you want. If you want to drink, then drink. Just know, like smoking, that you are damaging your body. I was a smoker for 20 years, and eventually just stopped, nearly by accident and unintentionally, after having tried and failed to quit for years and years.
I hope that you live a good life, and that you do whatever you need to do to enjoy your life, yourself, and your mates!
When I am home from work I am drinking beer, sleeping or eating in that order. I am sure my bac gets over the legal driving limit but seriously do not remember the last time I was “drunk”. I have had the same skilled trades job for 20 years.
Alcoholic? If you say so. Functional? Definetely.
No I’m not your grandmother - not even close. What I was asking is “why do you drink?” Is it a conscience decision to get drunk or high to have a good time or to mask feelings? And when trying to define the word “alcoholic” does any of this play a role or is it completely out of the individuals control?
I haven’t read the whole thread, so I apologize if this has already been said:
I work in a related field, have heard a million different definitions of ‘alcoholic’. The one I like best is “someone who continues to drink alcohol despite repeated negative consequences from doing so”. If you have had repeated negative consequences, and are still trying to rationalize a way to continue to be able to drink, you fit that definition to a ‘T’.
Good luck -
I drink because a good whiskey is a something to be treasured, a good tequila is like golden sunshine, and a finely crafted beer quenches the thirst with depth and subtlety. When friends share their likes and dislikes about these subjects it is a bonding process that can last for years.
What about someone like myself, a social drinking 27-year old guy, who has a hangover on Saturday and ends up sleeping late instead of going to the gym? That’s a negative, but plenty of times outweighed by the positive experiences I have out late with friends.
The difference is in the judgmentalism. “Character flaw” comes across as “you’re a bad person” and feeds the idea that “this can’t happen to me, I’m better than that”. “Innate weakness” is a bit better, in that it reduces the judgment, but there’s still a bit of it in the “weakness” part, and perhaps still feeds the idea that “this can’t happen to me”. That’s why some people have opted to characterize it as a disease - something that can happen to anyone and is not your fault. It’s a state of being that you have to learn to deal with, not a moral failing you can cure by being “better”.
Being an alcholic can’t be fixed just by wanting to be “better”. Your choice comes in how you react to the discovery that you cannot control your drinking. Do you stop drinking altogether to prevent getting out of control, or do you continue drinking and hope this time you will do better?
There are plenty of ways to go out with friends and have a good time that do not involve drinking alcohol. You can even do them in bars. If your friends are pressuring you to drink when you don’t want to, you need a better class of friends.
Seems to me from your description, Scotty Mo, you are not drinking daily, you are just binge drinking on weekends in social situations. The problem is that you are not drinking to get buzzed, but drinking to get hammered. And couple with that, you mentioned you have emotional issues (anger) that the drinking is amplifying.
I really do think you should get counseling for the anger problems with or without AA or whatever. It would also do you well to consider just what you are trying to achieve by drinking. Is getting plastered really that much fun? Can you have fun with a more moderate level of drinking, and control how much you drink?
The problem is not so much the craving per se, it is the inability to control your behavior because of your desires. The cravings work against your self control, and alcohol has the inherent effect that it impairs your judgment in a way that nachos and carrot sticks do not, so it is easier to lose control if you start drinking in a way that carrot sticks and nachos won’t.
But uncontrolled binging on carrot sticks and nachos is not a good thing, either, it just has its effects on your waistline and self-esteem rather than on your behavior towards other people, your driving ability, your judgment for if you should drive or what you should do.
Wanting a beer or two is one thing, needing a beer or three is quite another. It’s the needing a beer that leads to constant drinking, drinking getting in the way of life, etc.
Don’t get hung up on definitions. Are you, technically, an alcoholic? Does alcoholism count as a “disease”? Who cares? What’s important is that alcohol is causing problems in your life, and if you want to be rid of those problems, then you need to eliminate (or at least heavily cut back on, but that’s probably harder) the alcohol.
With that said, it is possible (though rare) to go from being a serious problem drinker to being able to have a normal, healthy relationship with alcohol. A friend of mine, back in his college days, was at the point of “drink to get up in the morning, drink during the day, then drink to get to sleep at night”. But then, one day, he realized that he was destroying himself, and brought it under control. He still enjoys an occasional beer with supper, but in all the decades I’ve known him, I don’t think he’s been actually drunk once.
Alcoholism is a disease. To better understand this concept, let’s look at it as compared to a more traditional, well-accepted disease, diabetes:
In both cases, dealing with the disease comes down to personal responsibility and the choice to make positive decisions in regard to that disease and it’s impact on one’s life.
The diabetic who is in denial about his/her conditon will deteriorate and continue to spiral down healthwise until they hit rock bottom; which often times can mean death. Likewise, the alcoholic who is in denial or refuses to come to terms with his/her condition will suffer more and more until they die, kill someone or end up in jail (hit rock bottom).
Both are chronic conditions that require the “patient” to come to terms with the reality that there are substances out there that THEY can’t handle like others can. And this takes responsibility to manage one’s life in a way that ensures they remain healthy and vital while avoiding/managing these substances.
By that definition football is a disease. If a player is in denial about the harmful longterm effects and continues to play their health will continue to deteriorate.
Dude, please don’t use terminology you don’t understand. Neither GABA, glutamate, dopamine, nor serotonin are proteins.
That’s where we disagree. In my view, alcoholism is the fault of the individual that chooses to pick up a bottle knowing they can’t handle it appropriately. Calling it a disease relieves them of personal responsibility for their actions. One chooses to drink or not drink. Every day. Every time it is offered.
I drink. Sometimes I get drunk. I do it at a time and place where I can do so without negatively affecting others. Not when I’m going to be driving. Not when I’m going to be working. Not when it would be otherwise inappropriate for me to indulge. Not when and to the extent that it would have negative consequences for me. In my opinion, that’s a responsible way to handle alcohol.
What if calling alcoholism a “disease” actually is part of an approach that offers a set of tools that actually helps some significant proportion of alcoholics behave in such a way that they can to one extent or another avoid drinking?
What if calling alcoholism a “failure of personal responsibility” creates an approach that looks hostile and blaming to a significant proportion of alcoholics and does not help any significant proportion of alcoholics to avoid drinking and might in some significant proportion of cases create resentment and anger that pushes such people further into destructive behaviour?
If true, would such factors be important to you?
And to what extent do you believe that your own inner experience of alcohol consumption is transferable to the inner experience of someone who has a problematic history with alcohol consumption?
I don’t drink much, but my partner does. When we were first together I worried that he was an alcoholic, but I got over that. What I did was break it down.
**Work / life: **Was alcohol affecting people in our lives negatively? In our case, the answer was occasionally, but mostly because I don’t like being around drunk people. It wasn’t a problem for him or his friends or family, and certainly not at work. I had to admit that “you’re an alcoholic” isn’t the same as “I don’t think being drunk is fun.”
**Physical health: **Depending on the quanities consumed, alcohol will take its toll on your body. You can make a rational decision as to how much you’re willing to pay when you’re older for some fun now. Warning: your older self may disagree with you when he’s paying the piper.
**Money: **Can your budget withstand your habit? If you’re doing without or going into debt to support your drinking, it might be a problem.
All of that is ignoring disease / character flaws, binge drinking, inability to cut yourself off, and all the other signs. Basically, if you’re having a problem in any one of those areas, you should cut back on drinking. If you can’t easily cut back, then you have a problem that might be helped with the label “alcoholic”.
That’s not a negative that it interfering with your ability to live life, that is just a trade off of one type positive and the associated negatives for anther kind of positive and associated negatives. You are drinking with friends for the shared experience, controlling your drinking, and dealing with a hangover. You’re missing out on a workout. You’re not skipping work, or drinking so much you end up in the hospital with your stomach pumped, or blacking out, or starting fights, or beating up your friends for no reason, or unable to function without taking a drink to get going, a drink to stay going, and a drink to wind down.
This is perhaps a definitions problem. An alcoholic is a person who is unable to control their drinking - they start and they can’t stop, can’t limit. How they choose to deal with that is where the moral status comes in. Being aware you have a condition that prevents you from using good judgement if you start drinking means making the choice not to drink. The person is responsible for what they do drunk, they are responsible for choosing to drink knowing their condition.
Recognizing a person has will-power issues and helping them find ways to strengthen their willpower rather than give in to desires that lead to uncontrolled behavior is, I think, the goal. The “disease” is not that the person drinks, or that the person gets drunk off their ass. The “disease” is their inability to control their drinking, inability to resist drinking knowing it is destructive, and their uncontrolled behaviors when drunk - blackouts, anger issues, etc. Their responsibility comes by how they adapt to knowledge of their disease, which fits the parallel with the example of diabetes. A diabetic has something their body does different where they can’t handle a substance. They have to take specific actions to deal with their condition, or their condition will worsen and lead to death.
That’s all reasonable and works for you. Some people react to alcohol differently, and can’t control their behavior once they start drinking. And some people’s bodies adapt to alcohol such that they don’t feel like they can function normally without it. Neither of those apply to you.
I don’t know you, Scotty Mo, but it is quite possible to drink on the weekends and still be an alcoholic. That’s the type of alocholic I am. I can go weeks without taking a drink, but then I get the urge to get plowed.