I guess I really ought to be asking an aquarium forum this, but I’ve seen other people get good fish advice here and, well, you know, I don’t know them like I know you guys. Here’s the story.
I’ve recently started the whole aquarium thing again after serious failure as a kid. I’ve been running this 30 gallon tank for maybe a month since it finished cycling. Water tests fine - 0-0-low. Lots of plants growing well in a Flourite substrate. Eclipse hood/filter. I started out with six zebra danios, added two dwarf gouramis, then a week ago three little corydoras catfish.
Two days ago, one of the cory cats died. My boyfriend and I had seen him stick his head in a tiny little space under a piece of driftwood and laughed at how he probably thought nobody could see him, and then the next morning when I checked the tank he was dead. I thought it was just a random death (got to call PetSmart and see if he’s still under warranty, as it were) and flushed him. Today I noticed one of the surviving cats has a bulging and clouded eye. He seems to be behaving normally for the cories, but I’m not sure if he was like that before or if this is new, as my catfish hide all the time. I also don’t know if the fish that died earlier had any symptoms like that or not. The other surviving cat’s eyes are fine.
So, I read that popeye is more of a symptom of lots of other stuff than a disease, but I can’t figure out what to do about it. “Establish the root cause”? How on earth do I do that? How can I keep this poor little guy alive? Particularly since I can’t get anything for him until the morning? (I do have aquarium salt - should I give him a salt bath? I heard that’s good for some of the things fish get…)
(And, yes, now I understand the need for a quarantine tank. Next on my list.)
As you’ve learned, having “popeye” is like having a “cough.” The symptom gives almost no clue as to the cause.
What’s a fluorite substrate? any chance that your bottom dwelling fish are getting sick because there are some issues peculiar to the bottom of the tank?
Get a syphon that removes detritus from the substrate and give it a good going over. Also, maybe try a course of antibiotic FOOD. Not drugs in the water, but food in the fish. Follow the directions and don’t cut the treatment short, just like antibiotics you’d take yourself.
Finally, stop buying from PetBox. Find an independent store with knowledgeable sales people. They’re more likely to have healthy fish, and more likely to be able to help you when you have problems.
Well, I looked at two independant fish stores in town - one sells just fish, one sells reptiles and birds and some small mammals also, and all of their fish looked a lot worse than PetSmart. Clamped fins, long-dead fish in the tanks, etc. I know the PetSmart folks have wage slaves to take the dead fish out and make everything look nicer, but the fish really did look better there. Also, they had a longer guarantee than the locals did. So it’s not that I don’t know better than to shop at big box stores, but that I wasn’t at all impressed with the locals.
Flourite is a clay-based substrate that’s supposed to be good for your plants. Shouldn’t hurt the fish any.
Where does one get antibiotic food? Is it just one of those things I’ve never noticed at the stores because I didn’t need it?
I assume the 0,0,low is water parameters: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and LOW nitrates. That can either be OK, or mean that you don’t have enough algae in there yet to take the level of nitrates you’re getting.
My first thought is that the tank is overloaded. You’ve got 10-11 fish in only 30 gallons. That level of stocking requires a lot more maintainance than fewer fish. You’ll need a good functioning bacterial load in the filter and pretty frequent water changes. lissener’s idea about antibiotic food is a good thought. Popeye is often from a bacterial infection. Anytime you add new fish to the tank, they can get sick from the new bacteria, even if your previous fish were fine. Doing more frequent water changes can help any fish fight back better. If you were doing a 50% water change every two weeks, switching to 10% every other day can help.
IMHO, the best site for getting emergency help with fish health problems is Aquamaniacs. You can register and post there for free; they have an emergency forum. When we had fish, the folks at Aquamaniacs were very helpful and compassionate. There are some articles buried around the site somewhere, but I’d post in the emergency forum if I’d already had one death.
Poor fishie is worse today - his eye is more enlarged and there’s a white area under it. I can’t do a thing about it until at least 2 on a Sunday, thank you South Carolina.
Apricot, am I really overstocked? By adult-fish-inches I thought I was okay - the danios make 12, plus the gouramis to 16, plus the cory cats to 22. Is there something I’m missing there?
The Flourite is mixed with some gravel, but it’s not “clayey”, it’s pretty much like gravel. It does have a dust issue, but that’s been fine for ages.
If I feed the fish antibiotics, how can I be sure that 1) the sick fish will eat, and 2) the biofilter won’t be affected? Wouldn’t antibiotics kill the “good” bacteria?
Situation is not good, there are water treatments available, one is like a blue liquid you pour into a holding tank and place the fish within. There are ceertain instructions about the concentration required.
You may find this concentration is not very effective, I have seen very very much higher concentrations used, which either kills the fish of cures it, surprisingly the cure usually works but there is a risk, in any case, your tank does need treatment.
You should probably begin making arrangements. (I suggest a closed casket.) Since popeye is so hard to diagnose, it’s often fatal.
THe “inch” rule is the MAXIMUM load under ideal conditions. It is not the IDEAL load. Think of a natural body of water; think how densely populated it would be if the fish were loaded up to the inch-rule maximum. Natural conditions are VASTLY lower density than aquarium populations. (For a low maintenance tank, I usually stop at 3 or 4 fish in a >50gal tank. The higher the density, the higher the maintenance.)
Is there an undergravel filter? or is the water among the gravel stagnant and anaerobic? This is not good for bottom fish. Sharp-edged gravel is also not ideal for fish with soft barbels.
Only if you feed enough that your filter gets clogged with uneaten food. This may be your problem right there.
RIP Fishie. The other fishes started to eat him before he was quite dead, so I had to take him out. I feel awful I didn’t euthanize him better, just the traditional burial at sea. I’ve read I should have smashed his poor head, but I just couldn’t. I feel like a very bad pet owner now.
There’s no undergravel filter. I don’t overfeed, though, I’ve been very careful not to.
One very weird thing - my nitrate has been reading just barely in the “color” of my scale since it’s been done cycling. I’d just tested the water before I changed the water a few hours before I saw the fish’s eye and the nitrate was low like that. When I tested after I changed the water this morning in the hopes that would help my fish, it had gone up to 40. What could have happened? The ammonia and nitrite are still at 0, only the nitrate has changed. I plan on another water change tonight, is that all I can do?
And I assume I should finish the cycle of antibiotics for the sake of the other fish, right?
Perhaps you should test your incoming water supply. It’s not unheard of to have incoming nitrates in the supply. We get “leafy” water in the fall as the trees lose leaves into the open aquafer.
And, yeah, finish the antibiotics because you likely have something brewing. It’s always good to have an antibiotic and an antifungal on hand (I keep melafix, salt, and some other a/b I can’t remember). I have another bubbler, so when a fish looks ill, I pull it out with some tank water, and give it extra heat, extra oxygen, a little salt, and it’s own room for a while. It keeps the canabalism to a minimum, even if the fish doesn’t survive.
On a general basis, I always suggest that people understock their tank. If you run at maximum density, you can never miss a water change, and the tank gets grungy quick, and the fish can be overly agressive with each other. Only the highly motivated really want to do 10% water changes every 3 days. Everyone else usually wants a more low maintainance pet.
Personally, I’ve got about 90 gallons with 10-15 fish, lots of plants, and a huge bio-filter (it fills a closet). It’s about as high maintainance as a TV.
Undergravel filters are not by any means the only solution, but they help prevent anaerobic pocket in the gravel, where real nastiness can brew. Unfortunately they’re not great for plants.
If you have too much uneaten food, and no undergravel filter, your substrate can become pretty septic. If you do a water change that siphons through the gravel, be very careful not to stir stuff up into the rest of the tank.
Even when I’m doing heavily planted tanks, I find I have fewer such problems if I can get some circulation through the gravel. With plants, that circulation should be minimal. With a low-temp tank (aponogetons, killies), I use a very, very slowly circulating undergravel filter. With a warmer tank, I use undergravel heat. This keeps things circulating as the warmer water rises up through the gravel.
No proof this is your problem, of course. Just saying that I sometimes encountered infection/septic problems, manifesting first among bottom fish, when I had a stagnant substrate.
As far as testing, I stopped most testing long ago: all a test can tell you is to do a water change. So I usually just skipped that step and did a water change. Not necessarily recommending that, if you feel more comfortable testing. Just saying, the closest you can come to a panacea in aquarium keeping is serial water changes. Even without knowing the cause of the problem, a course of daily water changes will solve almost anything. Almost.
Well, last night I tested the water again, this time with a liquid test (I’d had liquid tests for ammonia but not for nitrate and nitrite.) Holy crispy crap, has my nitrate gone up! So I tested my tap water, and while the nitrate wasn’t as high, it was still a lot higher than I expected. Well, what on earth do I do about that? (We did have a lot of rain last night, maybe that will help?) Honestly, I just trusted my tap water. Grr.
The other fish look okay for the moment, at least. All eyes in sockets, all present and accounted for.
Ask your water utility what the source of your water is, and how much such things fluctuate. I probly got spoiled having lived most of my aquarium career in Chicago, which has an extremely stable source of water and fluctuates very, very little.
Hmm, hadn’t thought about asking the water company. Will have to do that. I believe much of our water is from Lake Murray? I’m not sure, though.
I have many plants. Beaucoup plants. My plants are growing like it’s going out of style. It’s a little creepy, actually. I’m going to have to cut some of them back soon!
And now the water is getting cloudy - I guess from the antibiotics? A water change last night didn’t help much. Argh, my poor fishies! (They all seem healthy though - all fish and fish eyes still present and accounted for.)
Okay, I found a water quality report on the city webpage, which says that yes, our water comes from Lake Murray and the Broad River and that there’s about .26 ppm nitrate/nitrite in it (well, which one is it?!). At least that one test I ran on the tap water was a bit higher than that. I guess I should call and find out what’s up with that?
I also note that they use chloramine in addition to chlorine, but my conditioner is supposed to be removing that.
I thought it was just a random death (got to call PetSmart and see if he’s still under warranty, as it were) and flushed him. Today I noticed one of the surviving cats has a bulging and clouded eye. He seems to be behaving normally for the cories, but I’m not sure if he was like that before or if this is new, as my catfish hide all the time. I also don’t know if the fish that died earlier had any symptoms like that or not. The other surviving cat’s eyes are fine.