One (possibly) legit argument against legalizing prostitution.

Since the OP weighed in that this was a good restating of his points, I’ll respond to these.

Absolutely agreed. Relationships provide a plethora of benefits to both individuals and to any children that may result. Society should, to a certain degree, encourage men and women to enter relationships.

I dunno. Purely anecdotal, but I know plenty of men who aren’t getting laid as much as they did when they were single or early in their relationships, yet they’re still in them. Yes, they complain about it, but I’m not sure if that alone is necessarily going to be a deal breaker, especially if the rest of the relationship is generally good and the other benefits are still there too (economic stability, sharing of responsibility, kids, etc).

Also, I think the idea that men are more interested in sex is pretty out-dated. Men are more likely to talk about it and be aggressive to seek it and may need it somewhat more often, but I think women are just as disappointed when they’re not getting sex either. A sexless relationship is going to be disappointing to both parties.

Also, part of the situation is that, in general, women have more power when it comes to getting laid. In a relationship, how many men try to initiate sex and get turned down by their female partners versus women who try to initiate sex and get turned down by their male partners? Or similarly, imagine a man alone in a bar and a woman he considers attractive proposes he come back to her place; now imagine a woman in the same situation being propositioned by a man. I suspect there’s a lot more of the former accepting than the latter.

In today’s society, for one so inclined, no-strings-attached sex is easy to come by free in most places. There’s phone apps specifically for hooking up. Obviously, one might have issues with that if one’s standards are out of alignment and there’s potentially issues with disease and pregnancy, but it really it’s pretty easy. Plenty of people risk that anyway.

In that regard, it strikes me that legalized prostitution might even make this better because it could, properly regulated, provide some degree of protection against disease, pregnancy, and not to mention the well-fare of the women involved

I don’t think this follows. Maybe there’s men who are more or less happy with various aspects of their relationship EXCEPT for the sex part. Maybe if they were able to get that satisfaction elsewhere they’d be more willing to stay in an otherwise good relationship (at least from an economic stability and child rearing aspect). And, frankly, if the only reason a man is staying in a relationship is because it gives him access to regular sex, is that really a guy worth having around? If it’s that bad, is there even regular sex still going on?

It seems like a wash to me. Yes, men who are only drawn to relationships for sex are less inclined to enter them, but they were also likely bad partners to begin with. If the only way you can attract a partner is with your ability to provide sex, maybe you need to put in some effort to make yourself more attractive, least of all in a sexual way, but in terms of your personality, your expectations, your aspirations, career, whatever.

As it is, the age at which people are settling down into relationships is getting older. Lots of people, men and women, are starting to play the field at younger ages and realizing the benefits of stable relationships when they get older. How stable can it really be if it’s just sex that’s holding it together? And even still, it seems weird to me to think that of the men that aren’t already not in relationships because of porn or casual sex and not already cheating will just suddenly decide to leave an otherwise stable relationship or cheat on their wife because now they have access to legal prostitution.

It strikes me very much like the argument against legalizing pot because of the people who are currently not smoking only because it’s illegal, nevermind that so many people already are and there’s plenty of other drugs or legal ways to get high, whether it’s alcohol or prescription drugs or various other non-controlled substances. Maybe a few people who were only deterred by that might give in, but chances are if they would have issues with pot, they probably already have some other kind of addiction, alcohol, cigarettes, porn, gambling, whatever.

It still seems to me, though, that overwhelmingly prostitution will still be looked down on, especially for those already in a relationship. And for men like me and most that I know, we have no interest in it and it wouldn’t change my views toward a relationship. Hell, if anything, it removes those likely undesirable partners from the dating pool and gives men looking for more than just sex a better shot. So maybe slightly few total relationships, but probably also meaning more of those formed are likely going to be more stable.

If they are extracting commitment in exchange for sex, maybe its not a horrible thing to break that link.

Women can be a bit more confident that the men they are dating aren’t JUST looking to have sex with them.

A LOT of men are going to want families and for right now, our world is built around a traditional nuclear family. They might approach dating differently than they do now.

PDF - 2013 World Development Study: http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45198/1/Neumayer_Legalized_Prostitution_Increase_2012.pdf

This is exactly one of the reports I was referring to as being totally unreliable. In fact, this one is even worse, because it doesn’t distinguish between reported cases of sex trafficking and trafficking for other purposes.

You can feel free to throw other links at us, but I guarantee you not one of them is going to control for the factors I mentioned in my previous post.

Works fine for me, but the headline says it all anyway.

Yeah, that was my point. Or in Sweden or Norway, either.

…well done on your use of google.

But have you actually read your cite? Do you understand it?

Appendix B lists New Zealand as “Medium” in terms of “human trafficking inflow.” Do you know how many successful prosecutions there have been in New Zealand for human trafficking?

Zero. Zilch. There was a recent case. It was the first and only ever prosecution for human trafficking here: the trial was in 2015. It involved 18 Indian Nationals who were allegedly forced into work back in 2009. Nothing to do with the sex industry. They were found not guilty.

So how does a country which has never convicted anyone for human trafficking end up with a ranking of “medium” in your cited report? Well its your cite, so I’ll let you figure out the answer to that and then come back to us.

Here is one of many criticisms of this particular report:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/ronald-weitzer/miscounting-human-trafficking-and-slavery

So I agree with ruadh. IMHO this report is unreliable.

But obviously you think differently. Why does the report convince you?

It seems you want to make easier for people who wants a commited relationship to find partners by making sure that people who aren’t interested in such a relationship will be forced anyway to commit to it in order to get what they really want (sex). How can this be considered a social good? What makes your preference for a stable relationship more important than my preference for a casual one?

Why not instead making illegal commited relationships, so that people who really want a relationship will be forced instead to resort to casual sex, for the benefit of people who aren’t interested in a stable relationship and have difficulties finding casual partners? In what way is it different from your scenario and morally less defensible?

Why should a group of people be obligated to renounce to what they really want so that a second group of people could get what they really want at the expense of the former? Why shouldn’t we ban heterosexual sex so that lone homosexuals will find partners more easily? Why not banning contraception and abortion so that it will be more difficult for people who don’t want children to avoid it, for the benefit of people who want children? Why not making a daily hour of cuddling mandatory in all couples, so that people who like to cuddle will be happier at the expense of people who don’t like to? Why not making ugly people a protected class wrt marriage, making a criminal offense to have chosen a partner because he was better looking, so making easier for ugly people to have a romantic life? Why shouldn’t single people simply be forced to marry whoever requests it for the benefit of people who wants to get married and society in general? Why not making having sex with whoever wants to have sex with you mandatory in order to reduce sexual frustration?
How can this concept be even remotely be considered as a good argument to promote a policy, be it regarding prostitution or regarding anything else?

+100. This. I can’t grasp the logic in saying "By not allowing you to say ‘yes’ to sex, in exchange for money, we are respecting your sexual autonomy’.

For what it’s worth, Ronald Weitzer is an academic who’s studied prostitution (and not from an extreme decriminalization viewpoint), and he cites studies indicating that in Australia for example (where prostitution is legal and above-board) sex workers are generally fairly happy with their lives and take some measure of pride in their profesion.

“It ignores any sort of gendered analysis of prostitution. Moreover, fast food workers don’t suffer risks of pregnancy, STDs, or PTSD. In most circumstances, coerced sex is called rape or sexual assault. People value their sexual autonomy and see it as an integral part of who they are and suffer negative psychological effects when it’s violated. You can reflect on this by thinking of whether you’d want to work a day as fast food worker or have strangers perform anal sex on you all day.”

The ‘gendered’ analysis of prostitution is entirely because, well, women who want casual sex can typically find it more easily than men. This is becoming less the case, as sex becomes less risky and women become more empowered, and guess what, straight male sex workers are becoming a thing too. Look at The Gambia, for one example.

As for anal sex, some sex workers in countries where it’s legal don’t do it at all, because (surprise) being in a legal profession means they have more freedom to negotiate their working conditions. Again, see the Weitzer study: in Australia and New Zealand, sex workers are generally comfortable/happy with their profession, and see their ‘sexual capital’ as a valuable resource.