One size battery

My youngest got lots of toys for Christmas, most of them needed batteries. One toy needed C another needed D while some needed two or three A or triple A batteries. Couldn’t a single size battery be developed for most toys and flash lights? Each company could still remain in the competition with it’s single-size battery. I mean a battery ain’t exactly rocket science so surely something could be worked out! I understand that watches and other smaller products need that little lithium battery ,but why not one size for toys?

And by the way where in the hell is the B battery?

I may have just set a record for saying the word battery in a paragraph!


Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

This won’t answer all of your questions, but it will take care of some of them, including the B battery one. Say three Hail Cecils.

How come you never see any B batteries? 31-Jul-1992

Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

To answer your questions in reverse order, for the fate of the B battery, see http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_005b.html .

Basically the difference in sizes of batteries has to do with how long you want the battery to last and how big the item you want to put it in is. You can power a flashlight with anything from a AAA to a D cell but if you turn all of them on and leave them on the D cell one will stay lit a lot longer. You can also make a D cell walkman, but it might be a bit big to wear on your belt while jogging.

You use more than one battery in a device to vary the voltage or current you are using. The standard battery provides about 1.5 volts when new (rechargables slightly less). Put two of them in series (as in a flashlight) and you get 3 volts; four give you 6 and so on. Put them in parallel and you have 1.5 volts but twice the current. Some devices use some batteries in series and some on parallel.

Having different sized batteries gives engineers more flexibility in designing new products and allows a wider range of products than if all batteries were exactly the same.


“Drink your coffee! Remember, there are people sleeping in China.”

Dennis Matheson — dennis@mountaindiver.com
Hike, Dive, Ski, Climb — www.mountaindiver.com

The Straight Dope on the B battery:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a920731.html


If I wanted smoke blown up my ass, I’d be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose.

Thanks for the great replies, however I still maintain that makers of both toys and batteries could reach some uniformity in the future. For instance look how far we have come with technology ( computers and moble/cell phones come to mind)in the last 5-10 years. Surely to hell we could come up with products that would use one single common battery.


Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

Hey, there’s a battery of simul-posts. Looks like a c-cell.

Manhattan, Alphagene, you guys anywhere near Battery Park?


Easy one-step assembly instructions.
Pour Beer A in Uncle B.

As tanstaafl said, the main reason batteries are different sizes is to provide different capacities. Since AAA and D batteries have the same voltage output, you could put AAA batteries in your boom box. In fact, I have seen adapters that can convert a small (AA or AAA) battery into the larger size (these are used in some battery chargers. The problem is that battery capacity is roughly proportional to volume- the more stuff inside, the longer it will last. So your boom box won’t last very long on AAA batteries. On the other hand, if you attached a couple of D batteries to the outside of your portable CD player, instead of using AA batteries, you’d get lots (and LOTS) of playing time :).

Consumers expect their boom box to last more than 15 minutes at full volume, and don’t expect their portable pager or Palm Pilot to be twice the necessary size just to hold the batteries, so one size battery isn’t used.

No problem, you say- just make AAA’s last as long as a D battery! Unfortunately, the progress in battery chemistry, while impressive to those in the industry, isn’t at the same pace as electronics technology. This isn’t for lack of effort- there is a lot of R&D (and money) in making better batteries, especially rechargeables.

Arjuna34

And even if you did come up with a miraculous new cell chemistry, it would work just as well for the large sizes, so the large sizes would still last longer than the small sizes.

Really, it’s like asking, “Why don’t all motor vehicles have the same size fuel tank?” – because you don’t want your two-seater to have gas tanks bigger than the car itself, and you don’t want your 18-wheeler to have to refuel every 20 minutes.


John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams

I see what you guys are saying and I am not saying that one single battery fit should ALL things…just those insipid little toys that I over spent on this Christmas…
:slight_smile:


Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

mmm scratch the word “should” in that last post

I have to add that it’s just not that big an advantage to have a uniform battery anyway. You’d still have to buy the 20 batteries or whatever, so what’s the big deal if it’s 5 AAs, 5 D cells, and 10 C cells? I don’t get the big problem. It’s just a matter of doing a bit more planning. It’s not like there would be a big cost savings or anything.

dhanson:

Wouldn’t it be easier to buy or ask for one kind of battery? Ever run to a busy store and buy “triple A” batteries and get home to find that you have pick double A instead? I probably need to plan more carefully but it seems to me, the old adage, "simplicity is bliss,’ applies here.


Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

The triple-A size is the one that really ticks me off. They used to be extremely rare; back in the 70s, the only device I can think of that I owned which used them was a camera. They were also considerably more expensive than the more usual double-A size.

They’ve gained rapidly over the past few years though and now about half the small electronic stuff I own uses AAA.

The problem is that they’re just similar enough in size that I forget whether the batteries in my TV remote are AA or AAA, and invariably buy the wrong size.

Once, as a novelty, you could buy this thing that uses AA battery. For a C or D battery, it would come with a case that size and you would just put the AA battery in it. A,C and D, all are the same length, aren’t they?

Some toys need more power so bigger batteries. Could you imagine sending a spaceship up with a AAA battery? Of course not.

tanstaafl:

What devices have you seen that use batteries in parallel? This isn’t usually done to get higher current, because you can’t rely on most batteries, particularly low-internal-resistance ones to divide larger currents, than one of them is designed for, equally among them. For a current one could handle for its rated lifetime, you might get more in parallel to handle same for a longer time. To get multiple more-or-less voltage-source batteries to increase their common load current you’d have to connect them to separate inputs of some kind of common regulator.

Arjuna34:

When you speak of “adapters that can convert a[n]. . .AA or AAA battery into [a] larger size [battery],” I assume you just mean that these adapters merely reposition the device’s power terminals so as to be able to take higher-current batteries. You certainly don’t mean that these adapters produce more juice out of the small batteries themselves, do you?


Besides different voltage and current requirements of different devices/toys, there’s this thing called ‘form factor’. Small devices/toys may turn out more effective with their power sources crammed into different, possibly odd, shapes.

As an ex-hardware electronics engineer, I see these software geeks program all kinds of things, but I ain’t seen no one give 'em a battery yet they could program (for current, voltage, size and form factor). :wink:

Just 'cause 'lectronics is exploding in complexity and sheer mass, doesn’t mean any of that messy battery chemistry can do the same with ions. That stuff is still a black art. I worked a little while, not too long ago, at company in Berkeley trying to develop a lithium-sulphur battery. I don’t know anything at all about electrochemistry, but they sure didn’t seem to know what they were doing, although they sure seemed to know how to convince investors to let loose of their bucks, at that time Monsanto, the other day the gov’ment. . .now some 10 yr down the pike (definitely not an electronic/software timescale).

For the Y2K meltdown, they showed on the TV news tonight a hand lantern you just crank about 20 revs and it’ll give you approx. 1/2 an hr of flashlight beam. Not sure the kids are into that much cranking. Could return to the old spring-wound toys. . .if you’re not into more dangerous sources of power – say CO2 cartridges.

Is there no relation between the letter designations of electrochemical cells and those associated with the different power inputs to old tube-employing radios? Those radios had ‘A’ inputs to heat the tubes’ filaments (low voltage, high current), ‘B’ inputs (high voltage, moderate current) for high-voltage for their anodes/plates for electron attraction, and negative ‘C’ inputs (moderate voltage, essentially no current) to bias the tubes’ control grids. The 'A’s and 'C’s then would seem to maybe correlate, and the nature of the radio 'B’s would explain their absence in modern life, where small devices no longer need high voltages. In the days of tube radios, in AC-powerless locations, a ‘B’ “battery” was truly a battery of small cells, in series in order to get the high voltage, usually 67 1/2 v minimum.

Ray (My calculator does very well on a solar cell I never have to change, thank you.)

NanoByte:

Yes, the adapters I was talking about (from AAA and AA to D as I recall) were just plastic holders that gave the battery the D form factor, and extended the terminals so it would make contact in a D holder. Of course you still just get the small battery’s capacity.

It is possible to make an adapter that would give you D battery life from a AAA- you’d just have to make the adapter hollow, and have more battery electrolyte in the adapter :). Of course this would be a one-time use adapter ;). (Yes, I know you can’t easily parallel batteries, etc. but in principle it can be done).

Two batteries in parallel can produce more current. Yes, the limiting factor is the internal resistance of the battery, but two batteries in parallel have a lower combined internal resistance.

I seem to recall from my EE days that you could treat two batteries in Parallel as a single Norton current source.

There are practical problems with putting batteries in parallel. Since two random batteries won’t have exactly the same internal resistance, they don’t share the load current evenly. The end result is one battery dying earlier (often much earlier) than the other. If your product needed the current from both, when the first battery dies, the whole product is dead. They usually don’t have exactly the same terminal voltage either. The result of that is one battery pumping current into the other battery, which discharges one battery and charges the other (not a good thing for non-rechargeable batteries!) Even if they start out identical , they can have different discharge curves due to slight differences in manufacturing. After some use, they will then have different terminal voltages, etc.

It gets worse when you contemplate using two different manufacturers’ batteries together, and event worse if you try different types of batteries (i.e. alkaline with carbon-zinc “heavy duty”).

This is one reason why larger batteries exist. If you could easily parallel them, you’d probably fewer D cells and more C cells (products that take D would just use more C’s). There are circuit designs which overcome the problems above, but that means putting extra circuitry in the product (=more cost), so it usually isnt’ done.

What a bunch of crybabies.

Come on, let’s count how many different battery sizes/types are made for toys, flashlights, boomboxes, smoke detectors, and other household appliances: D, C, AA, AAA, 9volt.

Five.

Now count how many there are for watches, calculators, hearing aids, computers, camcorders. Dozens! Maybe hundreds!

Let’s not cry about the five old-fashioned ones, ok?

I had a toy that could take 2 or 4 D cells. When it took two, the cells were in series. When it took four, the second pair was in parallel with the first. So they do (or did) make them. This was mid 70’s.

They toy was a Vertibird, a little helicopter on a stick. It definitely performed better with four batteries than two. Lots of fun :).


It is too clear, and so it is hard to see.