Online Gold Farming (in China)

Great Debates
1

From this New York Times article :

That’s only a small portion of the article (which runs 7 pages).

I don’t really know how to feel about this. On the one hand, the wages they’re making (3-4 RMB an hour) compare to those made by waiters and similar jobs (at least here in Kunming). In addition, some of them seem to find it enjoyable (at least at first) or satisfying in some way. For example, one of the guys in the article mentions that he prefers the freedom of gold farming vs. power-levelling (levelling up someone else’s account). And when the employees work together to win end-game items for their customers-- that sounds kinda fun, in the way that any team sport is fun.

However, this line of work takes employees from a demographic already having massive problems with internet and game addiction and encourages and develops said addiction! Some of my university students here are falling through the cracks, and this is at least in part to their staying in internet cafes all night, even during school nights. While it may make the same amount of money as waiting tables, it’s decidedly less healthy.

So I ask you: Should these places be supported and treated like any other place of work? Is it ethical to purchase gold or items from them?

2

This thread belongs in Cafe Society, Id say.

Yes, its wrong to purchase gold or items from them because it screws up game economy and erodes the illusion of the game.

In WoW, I see level 70’s who don’t even know the basics for their character. Or they have gear they didn’t earn like the rest of us.

3

Plus it puts people who are working for a living in competition with people who play the game for fun. Not so much in WoW, but in games line Lineage II, or EQ…

4

[QUOTE=Yag Rannavach]
Plus it puts people who are working for a living in competition with people who play the game for fun. Not so much in WoW, but in games line Lineage II, or EQ…
[/QUOTE]

Ex-wow player here. The only problem I have with gold farming is when farmers is when they are disruptive to other players like farming elementals in arathi when people are trying to run a quest needing to kill those elementals. Players will usually happily back off or even group up and help a player in need of monster kills, farmers just keep plugging along or if they do join up, tend to hoard every drop they can get where a player may share or even pass on what another player was looking for.

5

I read that article, and I must selfishly admit that I’m disappointed that it humanizes the gold farmers and informs us of how their wages are connected to their ability to farm in very real ways. They’re like telemarketers in that they abuse an infrastructure that wasn’t really intended to support them, and I have no sympathy for them. I don’t really want to know that getting PKed or banned can cost them their rent money.

Resources in MMOs are more often than not zero-sum within a given span of time (the only exception I can think of is Guild Wars, and perhaps any others that offer instanced areas). If a gold farmer is effectively controlling an area I would like to use, I do not have the option of using it while he’s there. If he was a regular gamer, I could try again the next night and hope he’s moved on, but as it’s his job, he’s going to be there 12 hours a day every day, effectively denying me and anyone else a chance at the controlled area. It’s as if telemarketers sent a barrage of phone calls at me from 6 to 7 pm each and every night; my use of the phone during that time is closed off to me without my consent.

Thankfully, it is possible for MMOs to be able to weather gold farmers. Newer games have begun to compensate by providing more and more areas, allowing players to spread out further, as in EVE; there’s thousands of star systems with an average of three to five asteroid fields. Finding a quiet place to mine without interference is generally not hard. From a macro POV, the economy is so vast and complex that credit farmers and Real Money Transactions simply do not make that big of an impact.

Alternately the game can provide instanced areas, but economy becomes a tricky thing since you can theoretically have an unlimited number of people in the exact same spot hunting the exact same creatures and earning the exact same amount of money; there’s no competition for resources. Guild Wars doesn’t really have an economy the way WoW or EVE do because of this, but it doesn’t need one.

Planetside doesn’t even have a superficial economy; items are free for the taking as long as you have the certifications and backpack space to carry them. Skill is also a significant factor; sure, you could purchase a maxed-level character, but while you could target a creature and hit Attack in EQ or WOW, you actually need twitch skills in PS. A level 20 player could easily get dropped by a level 5 if the latter knows how to use their weapons and the former doesn’t. Sadly, Planetside has not been terribly popular for a while.

I’m actually not opposed to the base concept of earning money by playing an MMO; Lord (Britain) knows I’d be thrilled to be able to do so myself. But the infrastructure needs to be designed with that in mind so that those who are playing for pleasure need not be stepped on by those playing to make a living.

6

[QUOTE=Windwalker]
So I ask you: Should these places be supported and treated like any other place of work? Is it ethical to purchase gold or items from them?
[/QUOTE]

“Supported” in which way?

As for ethical, forget the EULA: last week I reported a guy as a possible eBayer (someone who sounds like he’s bought his char or had it powerleveled) and had the pleasure to see him wiped. He had joined our group as the “tank,” the character whose job is to attract enemies’ attention so that the “healer” only needs to heal one person while the rest of the group (“DPSrs”) pummels it. His total lack of knowledge cost us several deaths; this in turn translates to high repair costs, too much time doing something that should have taken very little… once we kicked him out and got a Real Tank, the rest of the task went so smoothly you would have thought we were old time partners. His inability detracts from my enjoyment - therefore he gets kicked out, same as someone who went to a chachacha contest and started yelling “punk lives” at the top of his lungs would get kicked out. And I’d be glad to hold the door for the bouncers.

7

It’s definitely not ethical to buy gold or power-levelling services form a gold-farmer, for the simple reason that everybody who signs on to WoW has indicated their agreement not to do that. Case closed, pretty much. and, as has already been said, there’s a pretty good reason why Blizzard forbids real-money transactions for in-game items - it screws around the game for people who are playing it as it’s meant to be played.

I don’t bear any particular ire for gold-farmers (though I’ll report 'em wherever I see 'em) - eh, they’re trying to make a living like anyone else. People who run gold-farming sites … bit more ire. The people who get absolute scorn are the ones who use these services. Don’t want to play the game? Then go play a board game ffs, or a single-player game where you can cheat as much as you like. There, it’s not going to impact me

8

[QUOTE=Aspidistra]
It’s definitely not ethical to buy gold or power-levelling services form a gold-farmer, for the simple reason that everybody who signs on to WoW has indicated their agreement not to do that. Case closed, pretty much. and, as has already been said, there’s a pretty good reason why Blizzard forbids real-money transactions for in-game items - it screws around the game for people who are playing it as it’s meant to be played.

I don’t bear any particular ire for gold-farmers (though I’ll report 'em wherever I see 'em) - eh, they’re trying to make a living like anyone else. People who run gold-farming sites … bit more ire. The people who get absolute scorn are the ones who use these services. Don’t want to play the game? Then go play a board game ffs, or a single-player game where you can cheat as much as you like. There, it’s not going to impact me
[/QUOTE]

Ah, I’ve never played a MMORPG, so I didn’t know that there were such agreements already in place. As for your assignment of ire, that seems to make sense, if gold farmers really do hurt the play experience of actual players.

However, let’s say there’s a hypothetical MMORPG that’s massive enough that you never have to see gold-farmers… they can go to some obscure area where almost no one goes, that’s not some especially lucrative place, and is easily avoidable by real players. Would it really be so bad then, if it weren’t against the rules?

9

I guess I’m looking at it from the Chinese side. In terms of working conditions and impact on society (ignoring the effect on other gamers), should the Chinese government make an effort to shut down or regulate these types of places? It’s seriously unhealthy, as so many here are addicted to online games, and this line of work only encourages that. Also, 12 hours a day gaming must be doing something to these guys’ bodies…

10

[QUOTE=Windwalker]
Ah, I’ve never played a MMORPG, so I didn’t know that there were such agreements already in place. As for your assignment of ire, that seems to make sense, if gold farmers really do hurt the play experience of actual players.

However, let’s say there’s a hypothetical MMORPG that’s massive enough that you never have to see gold-farmers… they can go to some obscure area where almost no one goes, that’s not some especially lucrative place, and is easily avoidable by real players. Would it really be so bad then, if it weren’t against the rules?
[/QUOTE]

See, that’s the thing… it’s not “just” the written rules (the EULA) that’s being broken, but also the compact between players.

Farming for gold, reputation (which allows you to buy special items) or materials is a normal part of the game. There’s some rules more-or-less in place, rules that are not written and you can not call upon a GM to enforce, because it’s not a part of the EULA or of the written rules; it’s part of that compact called “courtesy.” An example: if a character is fighting a monster close to a valuable herb/treasure chest/mine and another character comes by, it’s considered courteous if this second person asks “excuse me, your herb?” rather than just grabbing it.

Rude farmers (whichever their nationality and whether they do it for real money or not) bother me occasionally. People who buy what the farmers sell, on the other hand, can really screw up an afternoon for a whole group.

Would I want to be part of a game where the compact between players included “those with the most money to spend will be the r0xx0rz and everybody else will bow to them”? No. Do I know people who would? Yeah. But I kind of like the look in their faces when someone else with more money comes around :stuck_out_tongue: .

Goldfarming services are basically the doping of MMORPGs.

As to how the Chinese government treats these places, well, whether China considers a EULA subscribed internationally as “legally binding” or not and whether they want to treat it as an “internet crime” or not is their internal business. But aren’t Chinese working conditions, in general, pretty horrid by my wimpy European standards? How is what you describe worse than spending 14 hours in a factory 6 days a week?

11

[QUOTE=Windwalker]
I guess I’m looking at it from the Chinese side. In terms of working conditions and impact on society (ignoring the effect on other gamers), should the Chinese government make an effort to shut down or regulate these types of places? It’s seriously unhealthy, as so many here are addicted to online games, and this line of work only encourages that. Also, 12 hours a day gaming must be doing something to these guys’ bodies…
[/QUOTE]
Hmm–I really doubt it’s more unhealthy than other factory jobs in poor areas of China.

I agree that it’s the users that should bear the real ire, and it’s irritating that Blizzard focuses on the farmers, not the purchasers. I don’t even get their reasoning. Aren’t the gold farmers paying subscription fees just as surely as the gold buyers are? The only thing that makes sense about it is that the farmers are likelier to buy a new account once their old one is banned; as such, they’re a moneymaker for Blizzard. Grr.

Daniel

12

[QUOTE=Windwalker]
Also, 12 hours a day gaming must be doing something to these guys’ bodies…
[/QUOTE]

Wait… you think people in the US don’t play 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, or more?

13

Dumb question- why do the game manufacturers allow this in the first place? They don’t profit from it, and it seems to piss of most players?

14

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Dumb question- why do the game manufacturers allow this in the first place? They don’t profit from it, and it seems to piss of most players?
[/QUOTE]
They don’t ‘allow’ it, they just have to figure out who’s doing it to farm gold, and who’s just grinding to the next level, and they have to do it with very limited resources. When they find out, they stop it - it’s the finding out that is tough.

15

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Dumb question- why do the game manufacturers allow this in the first place? They don’t profit from it, and it seems to piss of most players?
[/QUOTE]

They don’t allow it. The ebayer I reported got deleted (as well as other ebayers and robots*); there’s periodic purges of farmer accounts; the farmer-hunting software keeps getting better.

But it’s not like Bliz can have a GM staring at each single char to make sure they’re really playing - they can only delete those they find.

  • While Blizzard allows the use of “player written software enhancements,” there’s a limit to how much your software is allowed to play for you. Someone whose software is doing all the work or pretty much so is called a robot.
    I used to be a GM in a free game and really, we mostly got the cheats through player reports (a few times we ran automatic reporters but they slowed the server something ridiculous), but once you got a report, 99% of the time it was someone cheating and the other 1% it was legit activity (maybe we had to clarify a rule or give a warning). A lot of the cheats didn’t even try to “pass” - they’d start ranting some kind of self-entitled shit along the lines of “you can’t tell me how to play”. Uh, yes I can, actually, I’m one of those morons who volunteer to add game content and tell people how to use it.
16

I mean, isn’t there some way to program the game to prevent someone from obtaining something they didn’t earn?

17

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
I mean, isn’t there some way to program the game to prevent someone from obtaining something they didn’t earn?
[/QUOTE]

The thing is, trade is an essential part of the game. If you know what you’re doing, you can make a lot of fake money selling fake items to other characters, and that’s perfectly legitimate. When I began playing, a real-world friend of mine with a high-level character rode up and gave me some gifts (a bunch of large “backpacks” to carry things and 10 gold) that really helped me get started. People routinely start new characters in the game, and give their new characters gold from one of their more experienced characters. YOu don’t want to prevent this sort of thing.

Daniel

18

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
I mean, isn’t there some way to program the game to prevent someone from obtaining something they didn’t earn?
[/QUOTE]
Also, people sell entire accounts on eBay. A particular character is associated with a particular account and/or serial number and the owner puts the whole thing on eBay. Blizzard has no way to know when it’s transfered in its entirety. Some accounts sell for several thousand dollars, having been worked on and tweeked by experts for months or years.

19

Gold farmers don’t have the right to sell gold because it’s not their gold to sell. They’re selling the virtual property of Blizzard entertainment, and I don’t have any kind of sympathy for them.

Just for fun, I’d like to calculate how much real life money I denied a gold farming team last year when I killed and camped 3 of them for an hour in Tyr’s hand. Anyone got a good estimate?

20

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
I agree that it’s the users that should bear the real ire, and it’s irritating that Blizzard focuses on the farmers, not the purchasers. I don’t even get their reasoning. Aren’t the gold farmers paying subscription fees just as surely as the gold buyers are? The only thing that makes sense about it is that the farmers are likelier to buy a new account once their old one is banned; as such, they’re a moneymaker for Blizzard.
[/QUOTE]
Huh. This may be the one time I really disagree with you, LHoD.

I don’t know that they’re focusing on one over the other all that much. Even if they were focusing on the farmers over the buyers, though, that strikes me as more sensible if you want to cut back on the practice. Cracking down on users sure hasn’t seemed to help the War On Drugs any; the suppliers will just find new buyers.

The only way RMTs will be reduced is if the farmers no longer find it profitable. After all, there is no Real Life penalty for them; even I wouldn’t consider jail time to be reasonable in this situation. Banning users who have already made an RMT purchase doesn’t work toward this goal, as they’ve already given the farmer their money. Whether or not that player returns to the game hardly matters, as there’ll be a new customer to replace the old one in a little while.

Banning the farmers, on the other hand, costs them real money, both the money involved in getting a new account and the time spent having to get a new account, during which they’re not earning. The more money they’re having to put in to maintain their job, the less likely they’ll be to want to continue it.

And why shouldn’t Blizzard (or the MMO company of your choice) earn money off these guys? They screwed up and broke the rules, and if they want to play again they effectively need to pay a fine to the company. Analogy-wise, their license is suspended until they pay off their speeding tickets.

The other option is education, which MMO companies are already trying. RMTs are roundly blasted in every forum the company can reach, with dire warnings of bannination for anyone who participates. Yet players still do consciously make the choice to give farmers their money.

Banning the users is useless once the transaction is made, except possibly as deterrence. The farmer has his incentive to keep doing his job, and there’ll always be other users dumb enough to pay real money for fake wealth. I’m not necessarily against banning users who participated in these transactions, but IMO in order to actually make an impact, more focus needs to be put on the farmers themselves and getting the message out to people who haven’t yet engaged in RMT.