Only 21% of USAs population favor a military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities

[Otara]

“How does energy independence require that IAEA inspectors leave their country?”

Eh? For tons of reasons, one obvious one being they got annoyed with the IAEA and how its doing its inspections. Its hardly an amicable atmosphere after all.

Another possibility for instance is that they were being naughty and abandoned it because they realised they were risking their main goal. They cant come clean now because they know they’ll just lose the lot.

I just think its good to be careful about not getting too stuck on one scenario, ie that they’re just lying to buy time to build a bomb. It could all be a lot trickier than that.

Otara

[Zoe]

wildfire: Why does the media give the impression that there are a majority in USA that will support military strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities ?

Cite, please.

You may have the impression that the media has implied that a majority in the USA support a military strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities, but I believe that you have stated a false premise.

Please link to a poll by a major media source indicating that a majority of Americans support such a strike. Thanks.

[Squink]

@Whack-a-Mole

I think the analogy between WMDs/Iraq and Iran’s “possible” peaceful nuclear ambitions is weak.

Why call it “possible” peaceful nuclear ambitions? It’s pretty obvious that they have peaceful nuclear ambitions.
If you want to talk about their “possible” nuclear weapons program, call it by it’s name rather than casting aspersions on the “possibility” of a civilian program.
This talk of “possible” peaceful nuclear ambitions has the same prejuducial slant as talk of “homicide bombers.”

[FRDE]

The BBC has been broadcasting quite a lot about Iran

• I think they have an agenda, but they are normally truthful

Last night I heard a program in which they said that the Iranians were very sympathetic about 9/11 - also very helpful about Afghanistan - it figures, the Northern Alliance are closer to ‘Persians’.

According to the BBC it was kept low key

What really rattled their cage was being called part of the Axis of Evil

The BBC also said that the source of details on the Iranian nuclear program was rather mysterious - and that the Iranians 'fessed up promptly.

In essence the BBC was saying that the current problems with Iran are a reaction to overt hostility from the USA.

I think Otara’s point about pride might have have hit the nail on the head.

[DrDeth]

@Wildfire**MM

Why does the media give the impression that there are a majority in USA that will support military strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities ?

Cite?

But even so, the BBC goes on to say "There is, of course, no real indication in this poll as to what should happen if diplomacy fails. " I dare say almost everyone would like to give Diplomacy a try *first. *

The poll was badly worded, if you want to see how many would accept a Military strike, you need to ask the question “If all peaceful methods fail, and Iran continues it’s programme of building nuclear weapons, would you accept a military strike as a last resort?”

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Squink

Why call it “possible” peaceful nuclear ambitions? It’s pretty obvious that they have peaceful nuclear ambitions.

Exactly. They had a peaceful nuclear program underway under the umbrella of the NNPT to which they are a signatory. They received all sorts of help to build their civilian nuclear program as a result.

I say “possible peaceful” ambitions now because that is what the Iranians are saying it is but I do not buy it.

Like it or not Iran is as close to an outright enemy of the United States as these things get these days. Whether they are justified in that stance is another debate but it is what it is. They are the #1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Their President has publically called for Israel to be wiped off the map. I think it is very appropriate for the US and its allies (such as they are) to be genuinely concerned over Iran’s behavior.

[gonzomax]

The installations are supposed to be deep. The tactical nuke are supposed to penetrate. We do not have an army to go in so we have to bomb the shit out of them. I can not see how it can be justified. The world wont forgive us for this one.How isolated to we want to get.

[Dumbguy]

@Whack-a-Mole

Their President denied the Holocaust and called for Israel to move to Europe or Alaska.

Does that mean we’re going to invade Mel Gibson too.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Dumbguy

Does that mean we’re going to invade Mel Gibson too.

“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran’s revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

SOURCE: Breaking News, World News and Video from Al Jazeera

Sure. If Mel gets an army and seeks nuclear weapons such that he is a credible threat then absolutely. Otherwise he’s just some putz spouting off.

[aegypt]

So, tell me, because I forget, when was the last time Iran attacked anybody?

How about the several other nuclear powers in the area?

[Whack-a-Mole]

@aegypt

So, tell me, because I forget, when was the last time Iran attacked anybody?

If you consider that they are the #1 state sponsor of terrorism then one might argue they are attacking others on a fairly regular basis.

[XT]

By proxy of course. So its all good.

Why does the media give the impression that there are a majority in USA that will support military strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities ?

You ever going to back this up with a cite? Your whole OP rests on this precept after all.

-XT

[aegypt]

@Whack-a-Mole

If you consider that they are the #1 state sponsor of terrorism then one might argue they are attacking others on a fairly regular basis.

I seem to recall that they support, in a fairly modest way, some organizations who oppose the illegal occupation of their land by a certain country, whose name currently escapes me.

They’re on one side of a very complex conflict that is by no means as morally clear-cut as you imply.

I’m not sure that this means they are going to use nuclear weapons on us in our sleep in a master plan of global genocide.

I’ll also point out that there isn’t even any clear evidence they are seeking nuclear weapons or, if they are, that they are even remotely close to getting any, and that, indeed, the highest religious authority in the land has condemned nuclear weapons (which is a big deal).

I am fortunate enough to know several Iranians personally and I can report that they are not strange creatures from another planet, but human beings exactly like you and me. They come in all shapes, sizes, ages and personalities. They are often rightly proud of their culture, their people and their history, even though many disagree strongly with the current government on many issues.

I smell the unattractive reek of ill-concealed racism in the fantasy that the Iranians are “obviously” going to attack other countries with nuclear weapons (this being their one joy in life), and that it would be better to bomb the country “just in case”. And, being muslims, none of them will care about the consequences of raining nuclear death on anybody whose face they don’t like the look of, thinking that this will simply net them more virgins when it’s payback time in the hereafter.

Because, well, they’re obviously crazy with those beards and funny hats and women who dress like Jawas and hate Jesus, Elvis and the American way all drinking coffee from ridiculously tiny cups while being from the same general area of the world as Osama Bin Laden whom they just can’t wait to present with his very own shiny little nuclear bomb all wrapped up with a little bow for Christmas.

[FinnAgain]

@aegypt

I seem to recall that they support, in a fairly modest way, some organizations who oppose the illegal occupation of their land by a certain country, whose name currently escapes me.

’

You seem to be recalling something that, as it never actually happened, should be rather hard to remember.

Iran’s support of terrorist proxy forces has nothing to do with any part of Iran being held by occupying forces… as it isn’t.

@aegypt

I’m not sure that this means they are going to use nuclear weapons on us in our sleep in a master plan of global genocide.

Obviously their plan.

@aegypt

I’ll also point out that there isn’t even any clear evidence they are seeking nuclear weapons

No, but the fact that they’ve been working with plutonium and that much of their nueclear program is hidden and/or in deep underground bunkers, something looks more than a bit… suspicious.

@aegypt

I am fortunate enough to know several Iranians personally and I can report that they are not strange creatures from another planet, but human beings exactly like you and me.

:eek:

@aegypt

I smell the unattractive reek of ill-concealed racism in the fantasy that the Iranians are “obviously” going to attack other countries with nuclear weapons(this being their one joy in life), and that it would be better to bomb the country “just in case”.

It’s because of their support for terrorism. And their desires and attempts to both destabilize the ME and start proxy wars. And the fact that some of their sponsored terrorist forces have a true global reach. Just to name a few.

[Whack-a-Mole]

FinnAgain already replied much as I am about to but for the record…

@aegypt

I seem to recall that they support, in a fairly modest way, some organizations who oppose the illegal occupation of their land by a certain country, whose name currently escapes me.

No one is occupying any part of their country except them.

I’m not sure that this means they are going to use nuclear weapons on us in our sleep in a master plan of global genocide.

They need not be on about global genocide…just as long as they aim at us (the United States) I will rightly be concerned.

I’ll also point out that there isn’t even any clear evidence they are seeking nuclear weapons or, if they are, that they are even remotely close to getting any, and that, indeed, the highest religious authority in the land has condemned nuclear weapons (which is a big deal).

As already pointed out they are a signatory to the NNPT and then tossed out IAEA inspectors, buried and hid their nuclear enrichment facilities and thumb their nose at the world that is calling for them to be more transparent in their peaceful nuclear program. I do not know what exactly the religious authorities have said on the matter but something stinks.

I am fortunate enough to know several Iranians personally and I can report that they are not strange creatures from another planet, but human beings exactly like you and me. They come in all shapes, sizes, ages and personalities. They are often rightly proud of their culture, their people and their history, even though many disagree strongly with the current government on many issues.

That is the same everywhere around the world.

I smell the unattractive reek of ill-concealed racism in the fantasy that the Iranians are “obviously” going to attack other countries with nuclear weapons (this being their one joy in life), and that it would be better to bomb the country “just in case”. And, being muslims, none of them will care about the consequences of raining nuclear death on anybody whose face they don’t like the look of, thinking that this will simply net them more virgins when it’s payback time in the hereafter.

I take exception to being called a racist here…even in a back-handed way. Nothing I have said so far seems in the least bit racist to me. I do not care what color or creed someone holds. If they point a (proverbial) gun at me I am going to start thinking about ways to protect myself, my family and my friends.

Because, well, they’re obviously crazy with those beards and funny hats and women who dress like Jawas and hate Jesus, Elvis and the American way all drinking coffee from ridiculously tiny cups while being from the same general area of the world as Osama Bin Laden whom they just can’t wait to present with his very own shiny little nuclear bomb all wrapped up with a little bow for Christmas.

Hyperbole much?

It is not their beliefs or their likes and dislikes that get to me. It is their very active support of terrorism and their leader’s publically stated wishes to do things like wipe Israel off the map that concern me.

Presumably you have neighbors. I seriously doubt you care what they eat for dinner or watch on TV or whether they prefer Nintendo to Playstation. But if that neighbor said they wanted to kill your sister and you found they were trying to buy a gun I bet you would take notice and be worried.

[Squink]

Some US numbers:

Asked the best course of action for the United States in dealing with Iran’s nuclear ambitions, 45 percent said Washington should join with allies to increase diplomatic efforts and another 17 percent said the United States should step up diplomacy on its own.

One in four respondents, 26 percent, said they supported the use of U.S. ground troops in Iran, while 70 percent opposed it. Nine percent favored air strikes on selected military targets in Iran.

[aegypt]

Presumably you have neighbors. I seriously doubt you care what they eat for dinner or watch on TV or whether they prefer Nintendo to Playstation. But if that neighbor said they wanted to kill your sister and you found they were trying to buy a gun I bet you would take notice and be worried.

A better comparison would be this: Your neighbor, Mr Iran, has expressed a wish to purchase a bag of fertilizer from the local Home Depot.

He hasn’t hurt a fly in his life, and swears he will only use it for his garden.

However, since he is from another country, you realize that he is actually trying to make a fertilizer bomb and blow up the entire neighborhood.

He has also spoken disapprovingly of a certain Mr Israel, a fellow who regularly occupies his neighbors lawn and generously allows the original inhabitants of his house, Mr and Mrs Palestine, to live in a pen in part of the back yard. Mr Iran even gone as far as to say he’d be happier if Mr Israel would move to another neighborhood. Mr Israel posses several fertilizer bombs, but you are sure he would only ever use them in self defense.

So you resolve to go to Mr Iran’s place in the middle of the night, kick the door in, kill Mr Iran and a few of his relatives and then keep the rest of them locked up in the basement for the foreseeable future, just in case they too get terrorist ideas.

Naturally, you are quite sure the plan could at least not do any harm, since you are an excellent shot and own a beautiful collection of handguns. Thus the chance of Mr Iran hurting you in the process would be slim.

Besides, it would act as a deterrent to other neighbors who might harbor plans of genocide.

Also, Mr Iran owns one of the largest pools in the area, which you would be free to use after liberating his long-suffering family from the tyranny you’re sure they suffer.

Your neighbor, a Mr Swede (me), a good friend who only thinks about your best interests, advises you not to do this, and reminds you of the unfortunate affair with Mr Iraq last year. Poor Mr Iraq. He turned out not to have a nuclear bomb in his garden shed after all. You comfort yourself that you’re free to use his pool while the other neighbors help you rebuild his house.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

@aegypt

A better comparison would be this: Your neighbor, Mr Iran, has expressed a wish to purchase a bag of fertilizer from the local Home Depot.

He hasn’t hurt a fly in his life, and swears he will only use it for his garden.

However, since he is from another country, you realize that he is actually trying to make a fertilizer bomb and blow up the entire neighborhood.

He has also spoken disapprovingly of a certain Mr Israel, a fellow who regularly occupies his neighbors lawn and generously allows the original inhabitants of his house, Mr and Mrs Palestine, to live in a pen in part of the back yard. Mr Iran even gone as far as to say he’d be happier if Mr Israel would move to another neighborhood. Mr Israel posses several fertilizer bombs, but you are sure he would only ever use them in self defense.

So you resolve to go to Mr Iran’s place in the middle of the night, kick the door in, kill Mr Iran and a few of his relatives and then keep the rest of them locked up in the basement for the foreseeable future, just in case they too get terrorist ideas.

Naturally, you are quite sure the plan could at least not do any harm, since you are an excellent shot and own a beautiful collection of handguns. Thus the chance of Mr Iran hurting you in the process would be slim.

Besides, it would act as a deterrent to other neighbors who might harbor plans of genocide.

Also, Mr Iran owns one of the largest pools in the area, which you would be free to use after liberating his long-suffering family from the tyranny you’re sure they suffer.

Your neighbor, a Mr Swede (me), a good friend who only thinks about your best interests, advises you not to do this, and reminds you of the unfortunate affair with Mr Iraq last year. Poor Mr Iraq. He turned out not to have a nuclear bomb in his garden shed after all. You comfort yourself that you’re free to use his pool while the other neighbors help you rebuild his house.

Ummm…Mr. Iran has been known to beat his children, kill other peoples’ cats, & stand on the roof of his house at 3AM, stark naked, and scream twisted yammering screeds of Blood Vengence against Mr. Israel & his whole family.

Mr. & Mrs. Palestine have indeed been fenced out of Mr. Israel’s yard, after they tried to lob rocks through his window & burn his house down. But the other walls of Mr & Mrs. Palestine’s “pen” are erected by, respectively, Mr. Lebanon, Mr. Syria, Mr. Saudi, & that nice Mr. Egypt (a retiree who has been around for a long time, & has since kissed & made up with Mr. Israel).
Mr. Israel has never claimed to own any fertilizer bombs, and has never threatened anybody with one. Why do you assume Mr. Isreal is more likely to than that naked guy on top of the roof, screaming about how the World is plotting to steal his bicycle & set fire to his dentures?

[FinnAgain]

And this is why analogy, in general, is about as useful as a fart in a windstorm if you’re trying to prove something. How about, instead of making up a silly situation, we discuss the real one?

Oh, and, you going to retract your earlier statement about Iran having any of its land, at all, occupied by anybody, at all?

@aegypt

He hasn’t hurt a fly in his life, and swears he will only use it for his garden.

Much like the imaginary Iranian occupied land, the “pacifistic Iran” is also a myth. If you think that Iran’s terror groups have never ‘hurt a fly’…

@aegypt

However, since he is from another country

Yes, that’s why. It’s not because they’re a sponsor of global terrorism and have participated in several proxy-wars and proxy-attacks.

It’s because they’re furriners.

@aegypt

He has also spoken disapprovingly of a certain Mr Israel,

Disapprovingly, advocated genocide… six of one, half dozen of another. And let’s not forget that Iranian weapons that get into Hezbollah’s hands are only “disapproving talk”.

@aegypt

a fellow who regularly occupies his neighbors lawn and generously allows the original inhabitants of his house, Mr and Mrs Palestine, to live in a pen in part of the back yard.

Never mind, of course, that Israel’s disputes with their neighbors have just about nothing to do with Iran. We can leave aside your rather fictional portrayal of those disputes. But that’s okay… if Israel does bad things, then the prime sponsor of global terrorism should have nukes. The logic is undeniable.

[The_Laughing_Man]

You do know that all this talk about US (by that I mean the West UK, America, etc) bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities is totally pointless? The Israelis will get there long before any of us do. Remember they bombed the Nuclear Power Station built in Iraq by the French so this is no new situation for them.